New ITC CRX owner here!

[iambhooper]

I just made a deal for a '87 CRX DX ITC car. For those that don't know me, that's because my previous ride wasn't all that reliable (the blue FIAT X1/9 that made it to the Goblins Go and the Double ECR at VIR this year).

The car Honda was prepped locally, and has been very competetive in class. As I havne't owned a FWD car in 15 years, much less raced one, I'm sure I will have many questions over time.

One question off the top. The owner did not have a air cleaner/fliter on the carb. Is that unusual? If so, can anyone recomend one that would fit nicely?

Thanks!

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hoop
greensboro, nc
old car...Blue ITC Fiat x1/9
New Car... White ITC Honda CRX
Region 55

[racer14itc]

Hey Hoop,

Whose car did you buy? The one with "PIP Printing" on the side??

Or did Craig F. decide to sell his car?

MC

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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Airborn Coatings/The Shop VW
Scirocco
Zephyr Race Coaching and Consulting


[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited December 06, 2004).]

[R2 Racing]

Congrats on your ITC Civic purchase! No, I wouldn't say it's uncommon to not have a filter on the carb. We run a Weber carb on our '85 and due to that it needs the adapter plate and has to sit that much closer to the hood. We use to have this elaborate intake box over it with a insulated tube and high flow filter that went to the front right of the engine compartment for "colder air". One day I literally got sick of taking the thing on and off everytime I wanted to adjust the carb, had heard people run without them, and I just didn't put it back on. I raced it like that and the car fealt no different at all. It turns out that since the carb sat so close to the hood, the distance between it and the top of the air cleaner box was only an inch or so creating a real sharp turn into the carb. Also add on a filter and some ducting and the air was cooler yes, but harder to get into the carbuerator. I felt it negated itself. So now I literally have a 1/4" chicken wire screen over the top of it to keep out the big chunks.

[Catch22]

Hey Hoop,

Welcome to ITC. I think you're going to like it, we had some incredible races in 2004. I drive the #22 '91 Civic, Red and black. Come over and say sometime, I'm typically paddocked in the OPM stable.

As far as the air cleaner... Yes, thats very common. The carbed cars seem to run better without them. I'm a little more cautious than that though, and while my car turns a few more HP without a filter I still run one.

BTW, plan on the ARRC for 2005. Thats the best racing you'll ever have and there aren't any Spec Miatas out there for a change.

And somebody in Tennessee has purchased Will Perry's old Civic, so thats yet another C car in the future mix. Good news.

Scott G.

Mark... Where you been? I've heard you still have your ITC car.

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#22 ITC Honda Civic
3rd Place 2004 ARRC
1st Place 2004 ARRC Enduro

[racer14itc]

Scott,

I'm still around, lurking and watching you guys at the SARRC races. I spend my time and $$$ on my G/Prod car, running nationals and the Runoffs. I'll be on TV Sunday afternoon (2PM on Speed). Finished 9th this year in the G/Prod race, moving up from 19th (out of 35 GP cars) on the grid.

My old ITC Scirocco is sitting in my dad's shop in Mt. Airy, waiting for him to get to work on it. He wants to run H/Prod with it, so it probably won't be back in ITC.

I miss running ITC, but I DON'T miss running with the Spec Pinatas...I think they should have to run with Spec Racer Ford in the SARRC races! Now THAT would take a while to clean up.

MC

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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme/Tristram's Garage VW Scirocco
http://pages.prodigy.net/Scirocco14gp

[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited December 06, 2004).]

[Catch22]

I miss running ITC, but I DON'T miss running with the Spec Pinatas...

I think thats the biggest issue with the drop in ITC participation over the last few years. If you're a front runner in ITC, you end up in the middle 3rd of SM, which can be a pretty ugly place to be.
The good news is that SM is going national in 2006, and I'm sure that will thin out the herd a bit at regional races.

But yeah, this year's ARRC showed how great the racing can be in ITC when we're not dodging flying pinatas.

Scott, whos had a good bit of minor contact this year... NONE of it with other ITC cars.

[R2 Racing]

Scott - did you mean someone bought Will's old CRX? Or did you mean Civic? I didn't know he ever had a Civic...

As for ITC, it really has been one of the better races at the ARRC the last couple of years, however, other than Scott, that field hasn't really changed at all in the last 4 or 5 years. There has been no new influx of some top-notch cars and drivers into that class. Hopefully with some new cars being classed into it, it can breath some life into it.

Kevin - who jumped off the ITC ship but still likes to remount it from time to time cause damn those things are fun to drive!

[iambhooper]

I ran ITC last year (or at least attempted to) with the Fiat. I entered the Double SARRC/MARRS race mothers day, but we blew 2 head gaskets. At the Go, the car finished the 1st ECR, in 3rd place but we were unable to race in the 2nd.

I bought the CRX from Tom Jackson, Craig Fogleman has raced it in the past. The car I bought was the White #4. I do not know Craig that well (I think I met him a time or 2 at the local autocross).

The Honda should give me the reliability to lose the X for sure in march!

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hoop
greensboro, nc
old car...Blue ITC Fiat x1/9
New Car... White ITC Honda CRX
Region 55

[This message has been edited by iambhooper (edited December 06, 2004).]

[Catch22]

Kevin,
The Perry's had 2 ITC cars. One the white CRX Will ran a the ARRC this year and a Red/White/Blue Civic. They just sold the Civic.

I think ITC will start to creep back upwards in the next couple of years. Its just too cheap and too much fun to die. There have been more than a few ITB and ITC drivers get burned by the Spec Miata "Competitive for less than $10K" myth, and I think they'll start coming back to the IT classes in the next few years.

Fact is, you CAN win the ARRC in an ITC car that cost less than $10K... You absolutely, positively CAN'T in a Spec Miata. Thats a reality that has started to rear its ugly head.

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#22 ITC Honda Civic
3rd Place 2004 ARRC
1st Place 2004 ARRC Enduro

[R2 Racing]

Originally posted by Catch22:
Fact is, you CAN win the ARRC in an ITC car that cost less than $10K... You absolutely, positively CAN'T in a Spec Miata. Thats a reality that has started to rear its ugly head.

Amen to that!

[Catch22]

Hey Ruck,
Give me a good email for you. I need to ask you some CENDIV questions. We're thinking about trekking up for a MO race next year.

[R2 Racing]

Originally posted by Catch22:
Hey Ruck,
Give me a good email for you. I need to ask you some CENDIV questions. We're thinking about trekking up for a MO race next year.

oohhh reeeaaallyyy?

kevin @ ruckracing.com - delete the spaces, blahblah...

[wbp]

Chuck Fullgraf, from Philadelphia, Tn. bought Will Perry's ITC Civic. Some years ago he raced a Formula Ford and C Sports Racer.
It will be interesting to see how he does in the Red/White/Blue Civic, his first FWD racer. In it's last 12 races it won 11 with one second.
We may pick up another ITC racer from Chattanooga Region next year too. It will be good to see some of the Spec Miatas move to Nationals in 2006. But ITC in SEDIV will have one more year of racing among the huge fields of "2300 pound squirrels". Some fine drivers in SM, but midpack - Wow!

[Catch22]

Oh yeah Ruck, I told you we'd come and we're gonna come. And you'd better be there when we do. Thats not smacktalk, I need somebody to let me follow them around for a few laps.

Hi Bill (assuming "wbp" is Bill), we're really looking forward to losing some of the Miatas as well and hopefully that will actually happen in '06. I keep thinking that the numbers will drop because they wreck so much we'll simply eventually run out of Miatas... but so far it hasn't happened.

And yes, mid pack in SM in the SEDIV is certainly ugly. It really really is. A combination of rental drivers and drivers who just aren't very good in fast cars from OPM and BSI and Evans, and relatively fast guys overdriving slow low budget cars.
What a mess.
When I first started in ITC I was so slow I was in the back of the pack where things were fairly peaceful. Since then, I've picked up a few seconds and put myself smack in the middle of the Flying Pinatas.
So far no major damage. You just have to keep an eye on those guys and live with the fact that occasionally one of them is going to ruin your race either by blocking you or by hitting you. You just shrug it off and move on.

Scott, who is convinced things are going to get better, either by alot of them going National or it getting so big it gets its own group (I'll gladly run with the prod and SS cars... No problem.)


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#22 ITC Honda Civic
3rd Place 2004 ARRC
1st Place 2004 ARRC Enduro

[iambhooper]

so anyway, i think i will like the new car. anyone have any driving tips? i've never driven a FWD car at speed b4, how long will it take to get used to the wheel lift?

also, what kind of timing advance are you guys running? the car is set at 19 degrees currently, best i can tell that is stock.

are there any good honda IT websites (other than this one of course), and specific parts vendors for racing stuff?

thanks!

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hoop
greensboro, nc
old car...Blue ITC Fiat x1/9
New Car... White ITC Honda CRX
Region 55

[Catch22]

I get most all of my stuff from OPM Autosports in Atlanta (opmautosports.com). They've been racing and winning for years in the 1st and 2nd gen CRXs.

As far as websites, I'm not sure about the earlier models (mines a '91) but I think alot of 85-87 guy frequent the discussion boards at Chilipper racing.

Front wheel drive ITC cars are really really fun. The most rewarding on track experience I've ever had and I've driven stuff from M Coupes to Integras. I think you'll like it.

Its all about the momentum.

[Greg Gauper]

Originally posted by Catch22:
As far as websites, I'm not sure about the earlier models (mines a '91) but I think alot of 85-87 guy frequent the discussion boards at Chilipper racing.

That's Red Pepper Racing...

http://www.redpepperracing.com/

Mostly 1st gen CRX's/3rd gen Civics (both ITC, same engine/drive train/suspension. Only thing that doesn't interchange is the front brake pads & calipers, but the rotors are the same.

Don't go too nuts on the ignition timing or you will either melt spark plugs, or worse, melt the CVCC prechamber, turning the head into an expensive door stop.

Biggest thing to learn about FWD is never lift abruptly in a corner or you will spin. That's not intuitive unless you have some background in open wheel cars like FFords. If the car has an adjustable rear sway bar, you might want to soften up the rear bar in your first session until you get used to the handling. They tend to be a little more forgiving that way. You won't even feel the car lifting a wheel. It's a fun car to drive, once you get the hang of it!

They are pretty reliable cars. About the only thing to keep an eye on is the front hubs. I suggest replacing them every 12-15 races. When they go, they tend to fail suddenly with no warning. Do yourself a favor and carry a spare set of uprights (from a boneyard). This way if you break a hub at the track (assuming you didn't hit anything when it broke), you can swap the whole assembly in about 15-20 minutes. Otherwise you need a press to replace the hub on the upright. I run a set hubs for about 12 race weekends then swap in my 'spare' set that has been fitted with new hubs & bearings and keep the old ones as emergency spares. When I get close to the end of the service life in that set (i.e. after 10 or 11 races), I then rebuild the spare set and work them into my rotation. Rear hubs won't fail suddenly, and will start to make noise when the bearings go bad so you'll have plenty of warning.

[iambhooper]

Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
Biggest thing to learn about FWD is never lift abruptly in a corner or you will spin.

thats very similar to mid engine cars (hey, same drve train layout, just on the opposite ends of the car). lift in one of those, and you will go off spinning.

when you say swap in the upright, are you refering to the whole strut/hub/knuckle assembly? that would get expensive to have an extra set of tokico's laying around.

i just got the car on sunday, and not being a fwd guy, i don't know what the suspension looks like in the rear. i don't know if it has a sway bar there. is there a good source for suspension parts?

thanks!




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hoop
Greensboro, NC
White ITC Honda CRX
Region 55

[Greg Gauper]

No, just the upright/knuckle assembly. The shock is a seperate unit.

To remove the upright:

1) Remove the axle nut. Do this before you take the wheel off. May require a breaker bar or impact wrench if the car has been sitting. Have a helper stand on the brake pedal to keep the wheel from turning. Once you have the axle nut off,

2) Remove the brake caliper (2 bolts).

3) Remove the upper pinch bolt that holds the shock to the upright and slide the shock out.

4) Unbolt the tie rod and ball joints.

5) Slide the upright w/hub off the axle.

Installation is the opposite of removal. You will have to reset your front toe if you swap axles due to variations in the castings. Torque the axle nut to 134ft-lbs. Don't use the technique that the VW guys do...just torque it to factory specs.

I can swap one out in about 20-30 minutes without rushing, but I've done it a few times, plus I always apply anti-sieze to everything when I put it back together to make it easier to service the next time.

I got two uprights from the boneyard for about $40 each. New hubs & bearings will run you about $125- $150 per side + labor, but you can spread that cost out over 12 races. If you have access to an arbor press, you can install the new hubs & bearings yourself and save on labor. It's pretty easy. Just follow the shop manual.

It can get a lot more expensive if you break one at speed. Not to mention the savings in your laundry bill for your underwear....if you get my drift

There are two common types of rear sway bar design. The most common (but cheapest) mounts the bar to the rear beam axle and then has adjutable links that connect to either the rear trailing arms, or to the chassis. The second type mounts the bar to the chassis and has links that connect to the axle. Both types use a simple traditional 'U' shaped sway bar. The adjustable type (if it has it) will consist of a series of holes on both 'arms' of the sway bar for fixed increments, or it will have a sort of sliding clamp arrangement for infinite adjustment. The adjustments for both types is the same....if you move the links towards the end of the bar you will soften the rear bar effect and reduce oversteer. If you move the links away from the ends, you will stiffen the rear bar effect and increase oversteer.

Yes, FWD is similar to a mid-engined car like an X1/9. Don't lift abruptly. You can breath off the throttle to tighten your line. On a track with a very tight corner you can sometimes throttle steer by lifting to help rotate the car, but once the car starts to rotate, punch the gas and hang on. One of the nice things about driving an ITC Honda is that they don't have much power, so the throttle is pretty much an on/off switch. The key to going fast is momentum and smoothness. If you scrub off speed, it takes forever to gather that speed back up...sort of like a Formula Vee.

The main difference between the Honda and your old Fiat is brake bias. The rear brakes on the Honda's don't work very hard and it isn't uncommon to get several seasons out of a set of rear shoes, where as your Fiat had better weight distribution so the rear brakes actually did some work on the car.
BTW - If the car was run with some success down there by the previous owner, chances are it already has all of the 'go fast' parts installed. The best thing you can invest in is seat time, seat time, and more seat time. Best of all, you've got a decent group of guys down there in SEDiv to run with and also give you some support/advice.

[This message has been edited by Greg Gauper (edited December 09, 2004).]

[Motor City Hamilton]

Originally posted by Greg Gauper:
That's Red Pepper Racing...

http://www.redpepperracing.com/

About the only thing to keep an eye on is the front hubs. I suggest replacing them every 12-15 races. When they go, they tend to fail suddenly with no warning.

Do you mean that the hub itself fails or that front bearings fail often?