Sound requirement and straight-pipe

[Fleetcare]

Where do you find a muffler shop that will do this ?
I tried today but they wouldnt install anything or touch the car since it had no cat.. what gives and how do I prove its not going on the street ??

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1989 CRX Si
"Budget under cover"

[jasonb]

Originally posted by HiRcc#21:
I have done alot of dyno testing different exhausts over the last 2 years and here is what we found:
on my ita crx, we found a reading of over 120hp (year old .020 over bottom end) at the wheels with this set up:
Using a new Landspeed Racing Powercore header, and a Magnaflow muffler (part# 10425). 2-1/4 in and out, 18" can.
If you measure from the flange of the header back 3" and install the muffler (edge of the can)into a 2-1/4" pipe,(with a rotateable flange and stock springs for hardware-like Lee suggested) the DB's ran at Nelson in Oct.'02 was 87. Lots of top end and it didn't hurt the bottom end either.
The straight pipe ends 7 inches after the linkage. (measured from the attachment point of the shifter to shift linkage arm.)We welded on a piece of round stock and bent it to the similar specs of a factory pipe, and used the rubber hangers to the factory "hooks" on the tub, and it works fine. No vibrations in the seat at full song.
We built approx. 15 different styles to arrive at this one.
The header, just released, gave us 2 hp over the old DC 4-2-1 with no header wrap.
Hope this helps you out... It does work!

Very helpful post, thanks alot! So you like the Landspeed header? I havent heard much about it other than it is competitively priced and I think Import Tuner got like 7whp out of the header on a D16 motor.

[Tom Blaney]

Great information and great timing. I have been running my crx/si with a header from opm (I think) and was about to unload a dc header. Do you have any performance differences with those. the opm is a 4 into 1 and the dc is sorta a 4/2 into 1. the same tube length and dia. for both headers just a little different shape.

Tom

[HiRcc#21]

Fleetcare, Jason B, and Tom Blaney-
Fleet- to answer your question first....
as for proving it won't be streetable...
I dealt with one shop for the last few years, and they know nothing about import performance if it isn't a catalog, so when I went to them, I kept buying material and got a good raport build with them, after while, they just did what I wanted with out any hassles...
Jason B-Yes, I like the Landspeed design, it is the best I have found so far, and they are willing to allow my input into the final design...from dyno testing here in Ohio..so that was a deal I set up, cause I wanted the flexibility to send the header back if I found more HP by tunning the header to my needs....so, the design is final now, and it does pick up about 7 overall, but you have to really have cold air to get the most of it, so the avg. we got in summer heat was 2 hp, plus Todd@Landspeed was super easy to deal with and very helpful in the developement process....
Tom Blaney-
As for the differences between the Landspeed header and the OPM is quite vast...
I know who builds the OPM header, and I know who Tom is using for motor work (SunBelt Performance in Atlanta), so his header was developed (I think, not sure, but a good guess here), using the head he runs from Jim @ Sunbelt and Toms R & D over the years...
I approached the Landspeed guys due to a recommendation from Johnathan Speigel at Progress Technologies (suspension co.), and Johnathan got me hooked up with the Magnaflow muffler, and with Todd @ Landspeed.
I set out to get a header set up for the civic/crx similar to how Tom did his deal with his header builder...Except I use Dan Paramore Racing Engines in Gardena, Ca.. I picked up a ton of hp with Dan and thus felt that I needed to upgrade my header since it was 5 years old. So the Landspeed guys worked with me to get a "tune" that sang to me so to speak..so that is how I did it. I just did basic R & D on the dyno with different exhaust lengths till I found the magic spots and then built a final product.

***Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to address each one of you guys individually with your paticular needs.
I hope this info helps, and it shortens your learning curve and saves you some bones.

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http://www.Street-N-Track Autosports- owner
ITA CRX Si #21
Central Division SCCA

[LTBMotorsports]

The header sold by OPM is designed for all IT cars not specifically for a certain head or Sunbelt Engines, that header is made by Walt Pucket out of NC. and you can purchase it from my company ( LTB Motorsports ) or from OPM.

This is my 3rd header from Walt that I used in my own cars ( 2 for CRX and 1 for my Delsol ) and they are great headers and I would recommend it to any IT car.

Louis B.

[HiRcc#21]

Louis-
Thanks for answering the question I put in my post. I was under the impression from talking to Tom a few years ago, that his header was more specificly built for Toms D16A6 config. in his CRX. But I could be mistaken that Walt's is more of a general fittment that suits all Honda's rather than just the crx..
I have heard they work pretty well, I know Tom won the ARRC with one, and I hope you didn't think that I was putting the OPM header down. I just replied to the posts that were addressed to me....

BTW- can you supply us with dyno sheets or how you install your whole exhaust like I did? It would be neat to see how you have your exhaust built, and what kind of HP no. you have....If I wanted to buy an OPM header, I would want to know this info first.



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http://www.Street-N-Track Autosports- owner
ITA CRX Si #21
Central Division SCCA

[jasonb]

Originally posted by HiRcc#21:
BTW- can you supply us with dyno sheets or how you install your whole exhaust like I did? It would be neat to see how you have your exhaust built, and what kind of HP no. you have....If I wanted to buy an OPM header, I would want to know this info first.

I would love to know the same. If there isnt a huge difference between the setup that HiRcc has vs. a setup with Walt's header, I'd much rather save the the couple hundred dollars and go with the Landspeed.

HiRcc, do you have a dyno chart of the setup you listed above?

[LTBMotorsports]

I will post an updates Dyno sheet within the next few weeks after I take the car to the Dyno, I am working on the suspension now and Walt just send me last week my new Delsol Header.
As for the CRX I don't have the Dyno info anymore since I sold the car to David White but if I remember correctly the Pucket header showed 118 hp at the Dyno comparing to the DC 4/1 header with only 115.5
The way I setup the pipe on the CRX was using 2.5'' pipe and using a Dynomax 2.5'' muffler ( about $40 from Summit ), on the new Delsol I am using a Borla Race muffler and a 2.5'' pipe.

Also the location of the muffler is very important when I was installing mine we called Walt Pucket and he told me exactly where to weld the muffler based on the pipe length and the location of the down pipe on the header, also I am sure if he build you a header we can get that info from him.


Louis

[CRX Lee G]

I've owned two OPM 4-1 headers by Walt. The first was on an ITA car and I always thought that it was one of the performance pluses that I had over the DC 4-2-1 guys. Becasue of this, I had them make a header for my EP/FP '88 CRX. I gave Walt my specifics on power and rev expectations and he did the math coming with up with a header similar to but with some different lengths than the ITA one. I am not familiar with the Landspeed products, I think they are newer to the business than when I bought my last race header.

I had an ITA car with a 4-1 Kamikaze stainless header and I think it was rather restrictive like a olympic sprinter with beans in his nose. I think it was mostly flashy kid stuff.

[SMSP]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid4...57/fce624a6.jpg

[jasonb]

Originally posted by SMSP:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/p62f3cd7aae7b2e59f892854bf9304957/fce 624a6.jpg://http://www.imagestation.com/picture...7/fce 624a6.jpg

I take it this is one of your headers? I emailed you a couple days ago regarding a header for an ITA CRX. Still waiting for a response.

[HiRcc#21]

Jason B-
sorry to take a couple days to reply, was out of town on business.
the dyno sheet you need, i no longer have. I wiped it out of my dyno in the spring. I have quite a few cars come through on my dyno, and didn't save the info. I know of someone else who might though, he runs the same set up I do:header and all.
Let me call him on Monday, and see if he has a sheet....He did all his dynowork on the dyno @ Magnaflow when they were messing around with a proper can length and such before making the final product....
I will update as soon as I get a hold of him...

[HiRcc#21]

Jason B-
I talked to my buddy with the dyno sheets. He said his dyno sheets are not for the Landspeed header. They are with the OPM header and the DC 4-2-1 and the DC 4-1.
He said that he found he lost 5 hp when he used the 4-1 with a long intake system (ex. iceman). He found that the short intake made better power with the DC 4-2-1 unit. So depending on if you have the factory air box (consider this a short intake system), or the iceman as a short set up, you need the 4-2-1 DC, or the OPM header with a short intake. The AEM cold air doesn't work as well with the OPM or the DC 4-1 header.
So depending on your header, this should help you decide on an intake/header set up.
The primary tubes have to be at least 1 5/8's or larger to work with the D16A6 config...He is going to fax me the dyno sheets today or tommorrow he said.
If you give me your email addy, I will scan them in and email them to you.
He hasn't been to the dyno with the Landspeed header yet, but I know when we went from the old 4-2-1 DC unit to the landspeed (using the short iceman set up) we picked up more hp. than with any of the other header/intake configurations.
I hope this helps you...


[This message has been edited by HiRcc#21 (edited February 11, 2003).]

[jasonb]

Originally posted by HiRcc#21:
Jason B-
I talked to my buddy with the dyno sheets. He said his dyno sheets are not for the Landspeed header. They are with the OPM header and the DC 4-2-1 and the 4-1.
He said that he found he lost 5 hp when he used the 4-1 with a long intake system (ex. iceman). He found that the long intake made better power with a short intake and the DC 4-2-1 unit. The primary tubes have to be at least 1 5/8's or larger to work with the D16A6 config...He is going to fax me the dyno sheets today or tommorrow he said.
If you give me your email addy, I will scan them in and email them to you.
He hasn't been to the dyno with the Landspeed header yet, but I know when we went from the old 4-2-1 DC unit to the landspeed (using the short iceman set up) we picked up more hp.
I hope this helps you...

Chris, I bet it Bernardo that you spoke with about this huh? I spoke with him not long ago about this and he said everything that you just said. I remeber looking at his dyno charts back when he came up here for a race at Sears point. With his setup, including a stock bottom end, he made around 124whp and 110wtq. Pretty impressive.

[HiRcc#21]

Jason B-
yes it is Bernardo. He and I are running the same set up. Our motor builder, Dan Paramore put Bernardo and I together in order to do some West Coast vs. East Coast testing with his cylinder heads and such.
Bernardo will be getting a Landspeed header very soon, and then he said he would dyno it and let us all in on the test info he gets.
He does run a pure stock bottom end, and Dan's cylinder head. I know at one race at Willow last year, a few skeptics were pointing fingers at Bernardo for an illegal engine. Well he blew up the one motor, then swapped in a purely stock motor with the same head and won the next weekend. That silenced the skeptics...that was impressive to me.
So I guess we will have to wait and see what results he puts out, when he gets a Landspeed header on there. He is more proven in the ranks than I am, so I will let his no.
s speak, since you know of him and you have seen his previous dyno sheets.
All that is left is get Dan to do a head for you I guess....lol

[davew]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> With his setup, including a stock bottom end, he made around 124whp and 110wtq. Pretty impressive. </font>

I'd agree is this was a drag race forum. but peak numbers are pretty useless for roadracing, and a terrible way to compare headers. I'd gladly give up a handfull of peak hp for more power out of the turns (on most tracks). Its sorta like saying your wife gained 10 lbs...well, it makes a huge difference if this was in the top or the bottom end (to some).

dave w



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[jasonb]

Originally posted by HiRcc#21:
Jason B-
All that is left is get Dan to do a head for you I guess....lol

Thats been done. I just put the head on two days ago. As soon as I get around to changing the clutch, I'll have it dynoed.

[SMSP]

Please, Please don't compare CAIs on a dyno. Placing a fan in front of a car on the dyno isn't a good test for CAIs but only helps with cooling. Everyone makes dyno runs with their hoods open. Not usually the case on the track. Air flow in front of the car plays a major roll in how CAIs work. You need to test these with some timed runs in one gear in the usuable rpm range to do a proper comparison.