Spherical Bearings for upper and lower A arm bushings..need

[JinMTVT]

hi!
i need help.. i want to change my suspension arm bushings (the one that attaches the arms to the body by rubber bushings) to spherical bearings..beeing that i can't tune camber and toe settings if they keep on changing under side load different conditions..and i've calcuated almost 1deg of lost camber due to theese bushings when they move..

so as anyone in here done the convrsion ?
what does it involves ? and where to get good bearings and how to choose the righ size of bearings!

car is prelude 97
thanks

[Bill Miller]

Have you looked into Delrin bushings?

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI

[JinMTVT]

nope..where should i start looking ?

is there a standard size to use for A arm bushing replacements?

[il8apex]

I think Bill's on to something here... Delrin would absorb just a little shock without deforming as much as a poly bushing. It's probably a better idea, seeing as how we're not supposed to be reinforcing the suspension mounting points in IT (except where the cage mountings coincide, I know, I know!).

Production is the place you find a lot of this, maybe they'll be a better source for you in this regard.

-Tom

[cbotha]

I don't think your calculations are correct. What type of movement were you allowing for that degree camber change. I have the Napa offset cam kit, I seem to have to adjust the cam a lot to get a 1/2 degree change and I don't think the rubber thickness is that great. I have not seen anyone make a kit yet with sperical bearings (although it is one of those projects I wouldn't mind getting to).

[mock1]

Some of the guys in So Cal are running prototye bearings in ITA and say they work great. The Progress Group is hoping to have them available some time in the future.

[Bill Miller]

Shine Racing has been selling spherical bearings for VW's for years now.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI

[Jon Nelson]

Is this legal? Seems to be outside the intent of the rules...... Personally, I'd go with Prothane or Energy suspension. Wait a second, I DID!!!

[mock1]

That great for vw's, but I thought we were talking about Honda's here.

[JinMTVT]

Could i have more information about the
Delrin bushings...
or at least some links to specs of theese things..or where to buy them ?

i don't necessairly need/want spherical bearings if i can get a simpler solution that would limit alot the play form the stock bughins..
and i dont wanna use energy bushings..don't like them..

[NoRaceCarYet]

Thanks for the SoCal info - Spherical bearings are illegal in Control arms...

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by NoRaceCarYet:
Thanks for the SoCal info - Spherical bearings are illegal in Control arms...

How so?

[Chris Wire]

Originally posted by NoRaceCarYet:
Thanks for the SoCal info - Spherical bearings are illegal in Control arms...

So B. Stretch, and others that have replaced the rear suspension bushings on the 240SXs are all illegal?

The rule states that bushing material is free. I read that to mean that bushing type is free also (i.e. spherical bearing, steel bushings, delrin, urethane, plain old rubber, air bushings, roll bar padding ). How is it that bearings are illegal?


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Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7

[Jon Nelson]

Taking the conservative approach, of course, but a bushing is a bushing, and a bearing is a bearing.

That said, OPM sells spherical bearings for the front tension/compression mounts on a 88-91 Civic/CRX. This may indicate that they are legal. This seems to contradict the thought that spherical bearings are verboten.

So, basically, I dunno...

[joeg]

That's what the GCR hints at too. In the Glossary, both are defined ("bushing/bush" vs. "Spherical bearing").

I would hesitate in swapping spherical bearings for bushings.

[NoRaceCarYet]

When some used bearings in A/S they were protested for it, the Comp Board finally came back with a full metal bushing is a bearing, thus, not allowed

--- Chris you were in A/S for a long time - you must know this - I am asking Chris Herzog if he remembers the ruling.

K

[NoRaceCarYet]

Oh! and lets not forget the attempt for 1st Gen Rx7's to put spherical "bushings" in the control arms for the rear suspension, that lastest about 2 races... They really worked well too!

[Knestis]

Out of curiosity, in the cases cited, were these bushings (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) installed without ANY modifications to either the suspension component or chassis pick-up point?

Kirk

[Chris Wire]

Originally posted by NoRaceCarYet:
When some used bearings in A/S they were protested for it, the Comp Board finally came back with a full metal bushing is a bearing, thus, not allowed

--- Chris you were in A/S for a long time - you must know this - I am asking Chris Herzog if he remembers the ruling.

K

My tenure in AS lasted all of 5 years. During that time, the only issue that I remember is when Ross Murray showed up with monoball ball joints in the lower control arms which allowed him to seriously lower his (and his customer's) cars, while still maintaining a decent roll center location. The cars made it through Tech, much to the chagrine of all, but the following Jan. brought a clarification in Fastrack which made them illegal. Ross' justification was that bushings in AS were free, but Fastrack declared that ball joints are not considered bushings. I recall nothing relative to control arm bushings.

The term "free" in the rule book is, in my opinion, an non-limiting term. You may consider the spherical bearing to be a bushing since, in the case of a lower front A-arm, the bearing only works in a rotational manner around the axis of the control arm bolts. In this case, it does not move in any other direction, therefore, it serves the same exact function as the stock bushing would, albeit with no bind. If the term "free" were to read "alternate bushings of the same type as original", then I would consider spherical bearings illegal. FWIW, I will likely be using Delrin.


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Chris Wire
Team Wire Racing
ITS Mazda RX7

[NoRaceCarYet]

I think the ball joint issue was a seperate issue from the "a metal bushing is a bearing" issue, though, yes I remember that episode through Chris H, or the Asedan list.

It's the same ruling that rules out the GW solid bearings in the LCA's on the Mustang's rear suspension, hence the "Del-a-lum" bushings.