Golf III ITB

[Fastfred92]

Already been down this road myself,,,, there is NO U.S. spec car sold from 93-99 Mk III that used manual steering. The City had power steering. I have raced with plenty of IT guys that have eliminated the PS but it is not legal on this car. I have EKTA on my computer if anyone has any other questions re: options etc. Canada may have a non PS car and I know that Mexico has Mk III without PS. BTW I have finally gotten response from a letter I sent to VWoA 2 years ago asking if any Golf III sports ( 1995 ) came from the factory without sunroof and there reply was yes.... a total of 232 cars were either special ordered or just misordered with SR delete in 1995. Rare car.

[Dave Zaslow]

I know where one of those rare cars are. It is in great condition too. And it's red ;-)No, he won't sell it for any reasonble price. Believe me, I've tried.

I have amassed VW brochures for all Golf model years. None feature derivative models such as the '95 City or Celebration. None give any 'technical' information. They are pretty useless. The City is the one we've got to score from somewhere. Perhaps a Monroney sticker?

Anyone?

Dave Z

PS If someone wants to host scans of the brochures, I will create the files as PDF's.

[Knestis]

Send me the PDFs and I'll host them.

K

[GRMPer]

I had one of them, the car trophied at Solo II Nats in 96. Weighed under 2400lbs stock.

Per

>BTW I have finally gotten response from a letter I >sent to VWoA 2 years ago asking if any Golf III >>sports ( 1995 ) came from the factory without >>>>sunroof and there reply was yes.... a total of 232 >cars were either special ordered or just >>misordered with SR delete in 1995. Rare car.

[JOESELLSVW]

Well my GTI is gutted. There's a lot more crap in an A3 than the A2 cars! The good thing is that I'm getting some cash out of the parts in the interior, unlike the A2 cars. $40. for used floor mats! I was hoping that someone would find a way for manual steering for the A3's, but I guess I'm wrong. I've bit off a bit of a challenge by doing a 96 with OBD II. Kirk, we'll have to pool some information since it looks like we're some of the few "late" cars in the field. I plan to have the car ready for the Labor Day double MARRS event. The car goes to be caged next week. I removed a few hundred pounds (or so it seemed) of interior junk, but I really don't see how I can get the car down to minimum weight.... legally. BSI is having Techtonics make a header for the car. Kirk do you have any idea what you're going to do trans wise? JOE

[Knestis]

You are right on about the parts situation. I got $300 for my seats when they came out this past week...

I don't know for sure yet what the 'box treatment will be, remembering that I'm actually a year ahead of where I planned to be on the IT transformation. For the balance of this year, the car will be in "ITB-minus" trim and I'll run stock ratios - and an open diff. Whee!

Stu B. thinks that the car will need a horrific low FD to overcome the ratio split weakness. I've yet to run any gear charts for the options but I wouldn't be surprised if that were indeed the case. The trick will be not ever needing 2nd.

I am a HUGE fan of the VW Motorsports clutch-type diff, from our rallying days. They ain't cheap but they work. I'm going to start my search there. Or a spool...

I'm *finally* picking up a used engine and trans the first week of June so the plan is to swap them in for the rest of the season and start making decisions and building the higher-mileage ones that came in the car. The 'box that I'm buying was a dealer-installed warranty replacement that has 3500 miles on it.

I'm working on an adjustable rear bar option and will keep you - and anyone else interested - updated through www.it2.evaluand.com/gti. It'll be an evolution of the one Fred A. built for the car Jason W. now has.

K

[m glassburner]

How much is that header going to cost??

[D. Shine]

That clutch type limited slip you love so much will cause undue understeer and prevent ever making the car handle as well as it needs to to become competetive.It will also wear quickly and cause more heat than you need.
I have noticed everyone talking about everything but handling! It is far more important than any motor! The gearing is the easiest IT car I have ever done!Get a dyno sheet and go to it.

Dick Shine

[Knestis]

What mechanism is involved in the understeer problem, Dick? Is it during the braking/off-throttle/turn-in transitions that it starts? I'm willing to look at any option but I like to be able to think about why, even if I'm slow on the uptake sometimes...

K

[D. Shine]

The amount of friction between the wheels is an understeer moment because it resists the wheels trying to travel a different arc when cornering.
I have tried this plenty,and though all the drivers always liked the feel,they were always slower with a clutch type over a Quaife and sometimes slower than an open diff.The only thing that was slower was a locker.

Dick Shine

[Knestis]

Thanks - that makes sense.

K

[Bildon]

>> That clutch type limited slip you love so much will cause undue understeer and prevent ever making the car handle as well as it needs to to become competetive.

I have heard only good things about Shine Racing. Therefore it comes as a great surprise to read this. Could you expand upon this train of thought? You must be referring to improperly setup clutch type diffs, because the commnets above contradict most common knowledge.

------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Dave Zaslow]

Dick,

So what is in Tim's car?

Tim,

How does it feel to you? Those thirds are adding up!

Dave Z

[D. Shine]

It should be obvious what is in Tims car!

Dick Shine

[D. Shine]

And BTW What is common knowledge? I dont think it is really too common. I get knowledge from research and testing. I dont think that is common enough.I am glad we are moving the discussion to things that matter finally! I certainly wouldnt want to ask my drivers to drive one of these without power steering.

Dick Shine

[JOESELLSVW]

We have to think about suspension? I thought that all I had to do was install it!
After all I ordered it from you Dick! Just got the new camber plates and rear strut bearings last week. Soon to swap everything over from the A2 car after the cage is put in. I'm interested in your insights on the gearbox. I'm not looking forward to buying something that I don't like. Summit Point is the track that I run most often, what would you reccomend? JOE

[Bildon]

>> common knowledge? I dont think it is really too common.

In IT I'd say your're right.

However to say this:

"...ever making the car handle as well as it needs to to become competetive"

... is simply misleading.

- Bill

[D. Shine]

How is that misleading?

Dick Shine

[Bildon]

Hey I don't want to get into an argument online as it usually ends badly ...
Forums are great for diseminating raw info but they are terrible for REAL communication.

Let's just say that contrary to your comments above about limited slips, I have seen them improve laps times by up to 2 seconds per lap even on low HP FWD cars. (I'm also sure there are situations where this is not true)

We could go on and on about the differences in driving styles, friction, ackerman, slip angles, LSD positive effects on braking, etc, etc, etc. I do believe that you may HAVE seen some drivers go faster on some tracks with certain cars without a LSD. All I'm saying is that they do not "prevent cars from being competitive" << that's the misleading part.

Our cars have won that last few NYSRRC championships in ITB with ltd slips. When I lived in Atlanta I recall a Bildon GTI (with limited slip) leading (from pole) the ARRC Enduro in front of Mr. Albin and Mr. Quindazzi. (sorry couldn't resist)

Our current ITS Corrado is still without the final trans and therefore without a ltd. slip. Perhaps I'll post my findings when we swap in the Ricardo.


------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Knestis]

I've got a sneaking suspicion that the answer to the question of whether the clutch-type or "other" diff is faster might be, "Yes, depending on driver preference and set-up."

Dick's position on the clutch option - and the welded diff only moreso - is that it will tend to understeer. That much is probably true, conditionally...

My experience with a homemade spool supports that this is the case during off-throttle turn-in situations. It is also easier to bind the car up on a solid diff, turning the car down to the apex - because you can - pretty much regardless of what kind of speed you are carrying: Confidence ehnancing but slow.

I'd bet that someone who is a trail-braker and gets to the gas quickly won't have nearly the problem with the front wheels interconnected - directly or through a clutch - while someone with a more "traditional," even-throttle-to-the-apex approach will see better times with a Quaife.

K