ECU rules applied to VWs

[Knestis]

Anyone learning anything on this front? Updates?

K

[VW16VRacer]

Eric and Kirk

After a long talk with the software guys it turns out there is no real way to change the factory software with out burning a new chip with modified software. With out knowing exactly the process they told me that there is no way to do what we as racers want to do with the factory software. You can certanly do it with a chip reader and aftermarket software but it involves burning a new chip every time you want to change something. The things I think you are looking at with the VAG-COM is under channel 10 (Adaptation). These are simply adaptation channels and are not changeable, they are simply responses to the inputs and outputs of the ECU. If you both would like to have a chat about this subject off this fourm feel free to e-mail me at [email protected].

Jon

[Eric Parham]

Jon, thanks for checking. I was afraid of that, but still hopeful that one of those adaptation values might change the ignition timing, for example. Some of the values are changeable within tight ranges.

Kirk, I don't have any news to speak of, although I have been learning a lot about flash memories and general microcontroller coding. As a former controls engineer, I am actually amazed that all these automotive controllers are still using maps rather than adaptive algorithm controls. I just don't get it (yet). In addition, the Bosch stuff seems to be a lot more "tamper resistant" than almost everything else (and it doesn't help that lots of the disclosed info is only in German).

Hi Dave, it's good to hear from you I saw Joel at the Glen and hoped to see you at Lime Rock for the NARRC runoffs. I managed to renew my license but I'm still rusty (ok, maybe not as rusty as my old Scirocco . Hoping that some ice racing this winter will put the polish back on. How's the new car progressing?

Cheers,
Eric

[This message has been edited by Eric Parham (edited December 08, 2004).]

[Knestis]

Since the new year is just about here and I have to get off the stick on some of these projects, I thought I'd put this back up to see if there are any new developments.

I'd also be interested to know what other MkIII runners are doing for the interim, until we come up with an elegant solution - like off-the-shelf tuner chip options?

K

[pfcs]

Kirk-based on my experience withMk II Digifant efi I'd bet your best bet is to buckle down and do it yourself. If you're willing to spend many hours of trial and error on a test bench with an e-prom emulator amd some editing software, you can probably figure out where the full load tables are and discover which area of the tables affect what load/rpm value. Being able to street drive your car will be a major asset! I installed a wideband O2 and datalogged load, rpm, and A/F to a Palm pilot. Once you've cracked the tables, you can drive around with a laptop and the e-prom emulator in place of the chip. I made 3rd gear pulls to redline, checked my results roadside, edited values, then re-tested. Only when I was pretty satisfied did I go onto rt 80 and make a pull in 4th to 6700. Incidently, in my search for answers, I got involved with Jeff A-nice guy, and helpful-but the real answer demanded a personal comittment. And if you figure this out for A3, you'll be VERY popular and stand to make some $ or at least new friends. PS: I think Chris Albin must have made some progress-at the ARRC, he came over to me and wanted to know if I had a chip burner and laptop on me. Contact me at [email protected] if you need info.

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phil hunt

[Knestis]

My current plan is to have Techtonics burn me a custom chip, based on my specs. They have been by far the most helpful, in terms of specific technical knowledge and willingness to talk about my plans, and make recommendations.

On a related point, I have a high-flow cat coming from rally specialists Davesport. It's going to be a muffler and allow me to pass state tests and avoid having to spoof the O2 sensors.

K

[Bildon]

I think you A3 Motronic guys and our Motronic 2.9 Corrado have a lot in common.
In reading this it looks like you guys are dong most of what we are doing...with one exception.

If you are looking for a way to tune your enignes without having to burn a new chip each time, and you do not want to go through the crazy process of re-wiring a MoTec into your stock ECU box then you may want to try a piggyback system.

We use the PerfectPower SMT6 unit for this. It allows full control over fuel and ignition as well as a number of other options that you can employ.

The system is of course illegal to run in races but we've found no better way to learn what the engine "NEEDS" when tuning on the dyno or at a test day. It's less than $300.

Once we've locked down the parameters we are going to go the same route as soem of you here have mentioned and burn ourselves a new chip with a couple custome maps.

Perhaps a humidity (Pocono monsoon) map and a race gas map.

We're a dealer if anyone wants one.

Here is some info on them:
http://perfectpower.canspeed.com/smt6.htm



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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2003 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Dave Zaslow]

Someone with a lot more knowledge needs to have a chat with this person:

http://www.rocketchip.com

because he can do this:

http://yourpage.blazenet.net/jsr/comparison.gif

I rode in one of his chipped Jetta TDI's this weekend. It did make power.

If there is interest I will try to get his phone #.

Dave Z

[Bildon]

Dave,
By looking at the indiviudiual car make links it appears he's getting his maps from a Euro tuner (PS, Nm). Any idea who it is? Revo, Wetterauer?

For racing we probably want to be burning our own chips as a result of dyno testing.
We've found that street chips have assumptions and precautions which compromise maximizing power for long WOT pulls that we see in IT racing.

Then again, your other link suggests this guy is doing exactly that.
http://yourpage.blazenet.net/jsr/comparison.gif

I'd like to talk with him.

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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[Knestis]

I got my pseudo-custom chip installed, let it temperature cycle a few times, then took it for a drive this evening. (Street legal racecars are good like that.)

The butt dyno suggests it has more low- and mid-range squirt and it DOES rev at least to 7000rpm now.

There are two places at VIR where that is going to pay big dividends - where it used to be necessary to either do a poopy short upshift, get out of the throttle, or drive along hammering on the rev limiter for a while.

K

[Bildon]

How are you guys fairing with your ECU tuning? We're making steady progress with the M2.9.

We have pretty much been able to pull back "the curtain" on the whole program.

The OEM maps run ~14.7 AFR ALL the time except at WOT, then 12's down to safe, but "slow" 11's by redline. So there is a lot of room for improvement.

Contact me if any of you want help to reprogram your own stuff. Maybe we can put a small forum together to share what we learn with each other.


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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[Bildon]

2L and VR6 guys, can you tell me which ECU you have in your cars?

258P
258CD
258DG
258BJ
258J
258M



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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment

[Knestis]

I have a 037 906 259 J in the 2.0 and a spare that was supposed to be out of a four but the number suggests is actually a VR6:

021 906 259
0 261 204 831
[10.01.98]

It's for sale or trade, by the way, if anyone can use it.

K