Rabbit GTi racing...?

[JohnRW]

I totalled an ITB 8V Golf in 1995 at Watkins Glen. On further thought, the 85's (first Golfs) would have dropped out of SS and into IT in 90-91 (?). Some people count solar years, some people count lunar cycles....I count time by totaled race cars.

Grease up them rockers, Grampa. Times' are a'flyin.

[Al Seim]

Bob:

For my $0.02, I think you're on the right track re the VW A1, but I'd forget the dual purpose idea and get two of them. A GTI for ITB or Rabbit/Scirocco ITC, doesn't really matter (but buy a currently running race car), and probably a GTI road car or any gas Rabbit/Scirocco if a real cheap GTI doesn't crop up.

The few hundred bucks you're budgeting to make the race car street legal will buy a pretty good running road car, and you won't have the hassle of worrying about emissions, trying to work on the car while making sure it's drivable every day, and what to drive when (not if) you break it at the track. Probably cheaper in the long run and only a couple of hundred (if that) more in the short run.

And yes, that's what I did when I was a teenager, albeit so long ago it was Datsun roadsters not VW A1s. You always have a spare part x with 2 cars!

Haven't changed much apparently, as I currently have a "2nd car" street A1 GTI and a track Scirocco. I bought the GTI 10 years ago for $1200, drove it 50,000 miles in that time, and it's probably worth about what I paid for it. Whee, free transportation! Maintenance is cheap and easy, parts generally no problem.

Good luck!

Al

[OTLimit]

When we first got interested in racing in ~1991-2, we had an A1 Rabbit GTI. Our second car was also a GTI, but the third was an 8V Golf because it had just gotten moved to ITB. That must have been in 97 or so, because it got driven into the armco at the old Gateway track (okay, so it had a brake line failure before the impact). And now a new generation....But if Chris had his way, he'd still be driving a Rabbit GTI on the street because it was the most fun to drive.

------------------
Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[This message has been edited by OTLimit (edited July 26, 2004).]

[racer_tim]

Just remember, that when the 83-84 Rabbit GTI was classed, it was in ITA.

Don't remember when it got bounced back to ITB. It had to be before 1993 since that's when I was competing against my current "cage" while I was in my A1 Scirocco.

E-mail me in private and I'll explain it.

racer_tim at yahoo dot com


------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[Bill Miller]

Bob,

If you don't have plans for Labor Day weekend, and want to go to an awesome event, come to the dbl at Summit Point. Tons of cars, tons of great racing, and tons of great people!!! BTW, how come you aren't going to Pocono this year? I'll be up there, just sans car.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Monkeywrench]

Thanks for the advice Al. The problem is I don't really have the room to have 2 cars and a trailer. I do have the room, but I don't think my parents would be happy taking up the all the driveway. Plus I can't really afford to spend money going club racing before college. I know all of you have been there before so I'll spare the details. My main intentions are to learn without putting my car in much risk. Hence the Solo 2,1 and a track day thrown in here or there. That way I'm not coming out onto a track with you guys with me being totally clueless and by the time I do go club racing, I'll have a tow vehicle and trailer by then. I'm waiting untill after college to do that so it will be a while.

I can't make Pocono because my dad is working. He had off for this upcoming weekend (he's a cop), but since NASCAR changed its date they moved the DN to a later date. He didn't know that and wasn't able to take off. I won't make the Labor Day event either. There is a decent chance I will be at the SVRA US Zippo Grand Prix at Watkins Glenn crewing with my dad on a wickedly fast Triumph TR4 in Sept.

How come you aren't taking your car Bill? There are some nice VW's everytime I was there. I like that Blue Scirocco with the white strips down the middle. Nice looking car.

[This message has been edited by Monkeywrench (edited July 26, 2004).]

[JOESELLSVW]

Cape May County eh? If all goes as planned you'll have a first class venue about an hour away in Millville come 2006. There are other threads around here about Thunderbolt Raceway so I don't want to highjack this one. Join up with the South Jersey region SCCA, while they aren't as active in road racing as the DC region, this will change. I'm a Philly region member and we put on a great autocross program. Our next event is at the Boeing helicopter plant In Ridley Park on August 8th. Come and check it out. Check out the Philly region website at www.phillyscca.com and also www.autox4u.com both local venues. Philly region is home to a few national champion drivers and several trophy holders, a great place to learn. As for crewing... as Bill said the Labor Day double at Summit is a great event. This year it shuld be a busy one as well since the Pennsylvania Hillclimb Association will be at the neighboring Jefferson Circuit the same weekend. I plan on running my new A3 GTI in both events. I'll be ther with a few of my friends including the Otto's MINI which for a good portion of last weekend's 12 Hours at Nelson was challenging the always funny Mr. Walsh for class honors in SSC. John, VIR... it's on baby! We're gonna win one of these days! JOE

[Monkeywrench]

"If all goes as planned you'll have a first class venue about an hour away in Millville come 2006"

Even better than an hour. It takes us about 30 minutes to get out there. I've read pretty much everything that I could find on it and I love the layout. I sure hope it becomes a success. It's in a great location. About 3 1/2 from NY/NJ border, and about 25-30 minutes from Philly/ Chester (I know there are quite a few race cars from the West Chester area)and Delaware.

Wow! it seems like I have quite a few places to go auto xing. Atco, Camden, and the Philly area. Thanks Joe.

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by JOESELLSVW:
I'll be ther with a few of my friends including the Otto's MINI which for a good portion of last weekend's 12 Hours at Nelson was challenging the always funny Mr. Walsh for class honors in SSC. John, VIR... it's on baby! We're gonna win one of these days! JOE

Ahhh...the ceremonial "Throw Down the Gauntlet" post. Nice to have some real competition these days in SSC, rather than all those skanky Neons that spit parts all over the track.

Unloaded the 'Magic Nissan' last night, and reviewed plans for the rest of 2004 - VIR 13 Hour, EMRA 4 Hour at Summit, "Last Chance 3 Hour" at Watkins Glen. We're building an SM just for enduros, but we probably should juice the last life out of the Nissan, before it turns into a pumpkin next year ('96 chassis...).

The other JW wants to do the Gingerman 10 Hour (did it in '02 & '03), but we both have conflicts that weekend.

You bringing the A3 to the Nelson 2 Hour in two weeks ? I may leave the SRF at home and bring my A2 to run the enduro, even though it's slow as a dog. Really like to see a race prepped A3 in action.

[JOESELLSVW]

The A3 is getting caged as we speak, or so I'm told! The check was cashed so I'm thinking that I'll have work to do this weekend! I may do a hillclimd or two just to "shake it out". After watch the enduro I'd really like to drive Nelson. Quite honelty everyone told us it was a sh!thole. I was shocked when I got there, the paddock spaces were great, everything was pretty clean and it looks like effort has been made to pave the track. The people that ran the event were super nice. I came away really impressed and wanting to go back. I'd written Nelson off due to the comments I'd heard before, but will go out to race there myself.
As for my first time crewing in an endurance race, what a rush! Total adrenaline craze. I totally underestimated how much fun it'd be. We think that we could do this driveshaft change in under six minutes now that we have the correct size socket! We learned a lot, but most importantly had a blast. We couldn't ask for a better competitor John! Why to they call it an "intent to run" for? Shouldn't it be called a "intent to spend" form? JOE

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by JOESELLSVW:
After watch the enduro I'd really like to drive Nelson. Quite honelty everyone told us it was a sh!thole. I was shocked when I got there, the paddock spaces were great, everything was pretty clean and it looks like effort has been made to pave the track. The people that ran the event were super nice. I came away really impressed and wanting to go back. I'd written Nelson off due to the comments I'd heard before, but will go out to race there myself.

There have always been 'nay-sayers' jabbering about Nelson Ledgistan. I ignore them, although occasionally I poke them a bit. You'll never truly understand 'club racing' until you've been to a Regional at Nelson Ledges. Joe - you've now been 're-edu-ma-cated'. Feel free to come to the Nelsonring anytime, as the atmosphere you saw last weekend is the norm.

I get there 3-4 times a year, for the NEDiv Nat'l (and the CenDiv one when there is one), a Reg'l or two and then the traditional NEDiv season-closer - "The Great Pumpkin Race" every Halloween weekend. The Regions that race there - NEOhio, Mahoning Valley, Steel Cities, Western NY and Finger Lakes - know what a gem of a track it is. Maybe the potties are a tad smelly. Maybe the paddock isn't up to V.I.R. spec. Maybe the pit lane has a 'lunar-like' look. So what ??!?!?! Great racing, great people.

Very impressive axle change, BTW. I was right behind you when it broke just past Oak Tree. Peeked every lap, when I went by pit lane, and saw heads/bodies/tools being stuffed into the left front corner. When you guys made it back out so quick, I figured that it was just a brake problem, or the CD player was skipping, or the climate control had malfunctioned. Was really surprised when you guys told us about the axle change, after the checker.

I'm glad Gerry had a sense of humor about the last restart at 11:50PM. The traffic jam in T3 really hung both of us up. He had his right side tires in the grass, but I had plenty of grip with 4 in the grass. I think we both scared the crap out of the ITS Z car...

Great racing with you guys, too.

[Bill Miller]

Bob,

Due to budget restrictions, the car's not going to be ready for the Pocono dbl. And, I belive the Scirocco you're talking about belongs to Johannes Kraus. And yes, it's a nice car, as is the one that Don Barrack drives. Both of them are great drivers, and both the cars are very fast.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[JOESELLSVW]

Bill, will you be at MARRS labor day weekend? haven't seen you in a while, i haven't been on track myself after MARRS 1 in '03 when I flipped. JOE

[Monkeywrench]

Bill and Tim,

Can you shed some light on the differences between an IT GTI and a Production GTI (both A1 and A2)? All I can see is the addition of slicks, ram air (or something similar), additional lightening. I'm also guessing an aftermarket cam and adding some bigger rotors/ different calipers is allowed too. Is that really the only differences from an IT car to Production?

Bill, that stinks about not having the car ready. Are you going to race in the runoffs?

[This message has been edited by Monkeywrench (edited July 28, 2004).]

[racer_tim]

Originally posted by Monkeywrench:
Bill and Tim,

Can you shed some light on the differences between an IT GTI and a Production GTI (both A1 and A2)? All I can see is the addition of slicks, ram air (or something similar), additional lightening. I'm also guessing an aftermarket cam and adding some bigger rotors/ different calipers is allowed too. Is that really the only differences from an IT car to Production?

There are some differences to the body work, like the addition of fiberglass hood, fenders and flares, and rear hatch. You also can replace all of the side, rear, and windshield with Lexan. You have to remove all the other glass parts, headlights, side marker lights, etc. You can remove the bumpers, but then you need to add tow eyes.

As far as other performance things, the spec line in the PCS for the Rabbit GTI gives what you can do. Cam limitation is .420 lift, compression is limited to 11.0:1, IT port/polish 1" into the head and manifold. Basically an IT motor with a little hotter cam, and a bit of compression.

Brakes are the same as IT.

The biggest thing for this car is the transmission. You have to use the stock case, but all of the internals are free. This is causing a VERY BIG foobar in the LP Prod community. Put it this way, in order for the car to even be competitive on a National level, we need to invest $6-8k in the development of a dog-box, straight cut gear style tranmission with custom ratio's before the powers that be will give us any "competition adjustments". They also don't want the LP cars to be real competitive for a couple of years, in fear that they will piss off all of the other "full prep" prod drivers that have spent years and millions of dollars to make their old British cars competitive.

We are the new kids on the block, and need to walk carfully in the mine field.

Also, the new IT threaded body shock rule is also for the LP Prod community for next year, so that is a benefit for all.

If you have any other detailed question, feel free to contact me @ racer_tim at yahoo dot com

This is just my $0.02 worth.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[Bill Miller]

Not this year Bob, we'll have to see about next year. Costs a big chunk of change to go. Week off work, travel, hotel, etc.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Ceipher]

Alright, have a silly question that I can't help but ask. Do aerodynamic bits and gawdy wings do anything at all for A1 and A2 cars? Eurosport sells a "race only" wing for the rabbits and golfs...does it do anything besides add weight and drag? lol. Just because I'm curious now, does anyone know what these terrors look like on the cars? Eurosport doesn't have any pics.

[racer_tim]

Adding more surface area to a brick? Bling bling, save your money for "real" performance parts.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[Ceipher]

Tim, belive me, I have no intention of buying one, I've just never imagined a full race type wing on a little thing like a rabbit. I'm just curious what it looks like mostly.

[Bill Miller]

It's like Tim said. Here's an example. Are you familiar w/ the original MR2? Some of those cars came w/ a factory body kit. The SCCA allows this (on the spec line for the car) The guy I bought my old MR2 from tested the car both w/ and w/o various pieces of the kit. Bottom line is that the car was over a second slower at Summit Point w/ the kit than w/o, all else being equal.

The stuff may look 'cool', but rest assured, very little of it was designed w/ any real aero benefit in mind.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608