Rabbit GTi racing...?

[Ceipher]

Hey everyone, complete newbie here. I was just wondering if Rabbit GTi's were competative. I can find them left on the web, and their selling for around 5 or 6 hundred for a fairly nice one. Would it be worth grabbing one to soup up and learn to race in? Thanks

[racer_tim]

Yes, they are still out there, but in ITB, the A2 Golf GTI is the better bet. 4 wheel disk, better front suspension geometry, but all in all, the A1 Rabbit and Scirocco are still good cars.

Check out the pictures of mine.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[JLawton]

As been said a million times on this forum, you are much better off buying a completed race car then building one from scratch.

Although the Golfs are/will be a better car, they are new to ITB and have not been fully developed yet. A GTi can still run towards the front.

If you're looking to do a year or two of open track days (I would strongly suggest starting there)a GTi would be a great car. However, at $500, you'll be chasing a lot of problems instead of being on the track.

Good Luck
Jeff
#74 ITB GTi

[This message has been edited by JLawton (edited July 23, 2004).]

[Bill Miller]

Fun cars to race (I used to have one). But, as has been said, if you're just starting out, it's better to buy a done car. ITB Rabbit GTI's can be had for $2500 - $5000, all day long. You won't even come close to building one for that.

FYI, I sold mine for $3500, and it was pretty well developed.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Bob Burns]

Originally posted by JLawton:
Although the Golfs are/will be a better car, they are new to ITB and have not been fully developed yet.

Huh? The A2 Golf GTI has been in ITB for something like 5 years. It's the A3 Golf that was recently classified into ITB.

Bob...

[Knestis]

I did a LOT of thinking about this before making my decision and, if pure economy is the determining factor, find an undamaged MkII Golf or GTI from a no-rust state. It makes NO difference if it's a 2- or 4-door, I don't think, or what trim level it starts out as.

The first-generation GTIs are officially getting rare and are to the point where the prices are going up due to scarcity. They are also simply OLDER, making them harder to find parts for as well.

The MkII is a marginally better platform as well.

K

[Monkeywrench]

Does anyone know how hard it would be to get an ITB spec GTI street legal? I'm sure some emmision equipment and the original style seat belts have to be put back on, but does anyone know anything about getting a car with a cage past inspection? Would it probally be better, just to find a clean GTI and just spec the suspension, brakes, and engine to ITB spec, but keep the interior somewhat stock? I ask these questions because I am looking for a car to drive on the street that would serve dual purpose as a daily driver, solo 1/2, and some track days once in a while. I don't care about a stiff suspension or any other luxuries. What I really want to know is are these cars "too hot" for the street. Thanks

[Bill Miller]

Kirk,

I agree that the A1 GTI's are getting harder to find, especially ones that are still straight/rust free. But, they're out there, you just have to keep your eyes open. Opinions vary, but the people I've spoken w/ feel that the A1 is the better platform (over the A2). The shorter wheelbase is an advantage. However, the A2 makes more grunt. And surprisingly, you can still source most of the A1 parts w/o much trouble.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[racer_tim]

Monkeywrench, a cage is quite legal for a street car. I know lots of folks that drive their SS cars to/from the track.

Emissions and sound would be your most difficult points.

Of course, you'd also have to have a title, and other DMV type documentation.

I could get my GP Wabbit street legal, but since we have to take all of the lights, except for the brake lights, it would be a PITA to get it back to street legal. It would also ride like sh*&t with the stiff springs.

I don't know about you, but when I see all of the rice rockets driving down the street with numbers, stickers, etc all of the car, I LOL.

Can you say "HERE I AM, write me a ticket"




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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[Monkeywrench]

Thank you Tim. I knew emmisions would be a big PITA. Sound shouldn't be too big of a problem (cat, plus a Nuespeed or the like cat back should be quiet enough). I wasn't sure about the cage as you have to climb over the door bars to get inside. Now I know. My thing is I'm a HS student who has college to worry about in a few years. Looking at through the classifieds and watching Ebay it seems good examples are cheap for. Also it seems everywhere you look there are parts for them. That is defiently a good thing. The only thing is finding one with a title. I figure I can have a good "race" car that can be converted back to a street car for a few $100 (I hope). I'm really looking for a car that I can learn to really drive in. So I would auto x, solo 1 and some track days throughout the rest of HS and college, and get serious after college when the money starts rolling in. Anyway thanks again. I don't think a little old Rabbit should prove to be a cop magnet. I'll let the "Fast and the Foolish" crowd attract them.

Also do they allow spectators at Regional events? I've been to a few Nationals and love them (I stalk all the SCCA forums so I know who is who and what works and what doesn't to an extent). I would like to go to a Regional (next summer when I have a license and a car). Though it would be cool to hang out with you guys to learn the the "ins and outs" of racing.

My dad is friends with a long time SCCA racer who now races with the SVRA in a Triumph TR4 (Dick Stockton if anyone has heard the name before). So I have an idea of what it requires to race. So I'm not totally clueless to the process.


[This message has been edited by Monkeywrench (edited July 25, 2004).]

[racer_tim]

Most "regionals" are non-spectator events, just because of the additional insurance required for those events. As an SCCA member, your welcome to attend (spectate) any event, except for some of the larger events. I heard some hooror stories about the June Sprints this year, but that's not the norm.

I would suggest you join a crew (F&C, tech, etc) so that way you become involved with your local region, know what cars are fast, what the procedures are for registration, tech, social, etc. Start from "the other side of the fence" and you will have more fun once you start driving.

I started out flagging when I was about your age (17) and am still doing F&C, as well as race my GP Wabbit. I do both during some weekends. I also do "race official transportation" which delivers the workers out to their turns and pick them up.

Enjoy giving your time and expertise to your region, and SCCA, and I guarentee you that you will receive it back, 2-3 fold.

What part of the country are you in? I've got an ITC Scirocco that I got in trade for doing some work for my old sponsor. It needs to be finished, and have some upgrading done on it. It last raced in 1994. It's in the San Francisco Bay Area. The rocco has a quaife in it. That's the only reason I wanted it.

Welcome

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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[This message has been edited by racer_tim (edited July 25, 2004).]

[Knestis]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Kirk,

I agree that the A1 GTI's are getting harder to find, especially ones that are still straight/rust free. ...

It's an academic question - go figure - but doesn't one need an actual GTI to run an A1 as a "GTI?" I can't remember the last time I saw one "in the wild" at this point.

K

[Monkeywrench]

I am going to crew. I plan to join sometime this winter and start auto xing in the spring. Tech sounds like fun, as that is what I'm into. Though I don't want to crawl under cars all day and miss out watching some of the action out on the track. Do they instruct you at the events, or do you have to go to a "school" that the region puts on?

"What part of the country are you in? I've got an ITC Scirocco that I got in trade for doing some work for my old sponsor. It needs to be finished, and have some upgrading done on it. It last raced in 1994. It's in the San Francisco Bay Area. The rocco has a quaife in it. That's the only reason I wanted it."

I would be in the South Jersey Region. I'm obviously way over on the opposite coast as you. I love Scirrocos. I have been tossing up the idea of getting either a ITB/ITC Volkswagon GTI or Scirroco or a ITB Mustang. I have pretty much settled on a Volkswagon. It just seems like the best bet as there are tons of cars prepped already, parts are everywhere, and they are proven performers. Thanks a lot Tim. I appreciate the advice. BTW nice site. As for the NE guys, you'll probally see me around next summer. Most likely not on the track, but I'll be at some races (defiently at Pocono).

[This message has been edited by Monkeywrench (edited July 25, 2004).]

[Bill Miller]

Kirk,

Yes, you do need an actual GTI to run one. As far as 'seeing them in the wild', I just sold one for $500, earlier this year, that I had been driving for the past year and a half. It was still a running, rust free car. I bet if I looked on Vortex, I could probably find 3-5 for sale for <$1000.

I've actually still got a halfway decent tub at my house. It's pretty stripped out, but it's a real GTI tub.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Bill Miller]

Hey Monkeywrench, I'm in central NJ (Somerset County), and I'm always looking for extra (any?) crew! I'm still racing a VW, and would be happy to share what I know about them. You can reach me at millerwj at yahoo dot com.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Monkeywrench]

Hey thanks for the offer Bill. My email address is [email protected] (pathetic isn't it?). Like I said, I'll have my license by Sept. So after I get a car (probally sometime in the fall or winter) I'm good to crew. I've read all the engineering books that I can get my hands on. I think it's time I put all that "knowledge" to use. I plan to got for mech. engineering in college so crewing for any race car is a plus.I'm down in Cape May County so I'm a little ways down(1 1/2-2 hours worth of driving). So it doesn't look like I would be able to help a lot. But I'm sure if you are doing something major (ripping out a motor or something along those lines) I might be able to make the trip. I go to the Double National at Pocono every year except this one at least. I could defiently crew there and I'm sure I will head out to other tracks,well at least I'll try to.

BTW folks my name is Bob Adams. So you don't have to refer to me as Monkeywrench



[This message has been edited by Monkeywrench (edited July 25, 2004).]

[JLawton]

Originally posted by Bob Burns:

Originally posted by JLawton:
Although the Golfs are/will be a better car, they are new to ITB and have not been fully developed yet.

Huh? The A2 Golf GTI has been in ITB for something like 5 years. It's the A3 Golf that was recently classified into ITB.

Bob...

Oops, not paying attention when I'm reading..... Assumed A3

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by JLawton:
Huh? The A2 Golf GTI has been in ITB for something like 5 years.

Make that almost 15 years, and you'd be correct.

[Bob Burns]

Originally posted by JohnRW:
Make that almost 15 years, and you'd be correct.

The A2 GTI 8V was first classified in ITA. A former friend had an '85 model that he had run in SSC from 1986 (4th place at the Runoffs) to '89. He then converted it to ITA and it ran fairly competitively against Jack Tippens' BMW 2002tii. I took the car through two driver schools and my first race in 1992 (maybe '93) and it was still in ITA then. However, the writing was on the wall, so that particular car was converted to Solo II Prepared and then back to Club Racing in EP and now GP.

I'm pretty sure that the A2 GTI 8V was reclassified from ITA to ITB sometime while I was on the Competition Board (1997-2000).

Sorry for the history lesson. I'll go back to my rocking chair on the porch. <grin>

Bob...

[Greg Amy]

Hey, old man, I think I got ya beat: I did my first driver's schools in an ITA Rabbit GTi (mid-80s?)...yup, they used to be ITA.

(Evidence that everyone SHOULD expect cars to flow downhill to wallow in ITC...)

I still "have" a very good example of an A1 GTi, one that will never, ever, ever be subjected to the ills of motorsports...fuggedaboutit, Jeff.

http://www.gatm.com/cars/gti.html