ITB HP figures

[Bildon]

Hey racers... show me what you know.

Can you provide any estimates of the following ITB vehicle's HP/Weight ratios based on the GCR IT weights and your understanding of these car's ITB Horsepower as raced. (please no SWAGs!)

Feel free to send any other ITB HP figures you know are accurate. Email me if you don't want to post it here: [email protected]

FireArrow 2.6L 2360lbs
Omni 2.2L 2320lbs
BMW 2002 2L 2280lbs
Volvo 142 2L 2640lbs
Golf GTI 1.8L 2280lbs
Rabbit GTI 1.8L 2180lbs
Geo Storm 1.6L 2380lbs

Thanks for your time.
Bill

[Knestis]

Obviously, I would LOVE to see any data that comes out of this activity...

That Academic PITA Kirk

[Bill Miller]

If I didn't know better, I'd say someone was trying to gather data to make a case for the A3 Golf in ITB!

With the exception of the Geo Storm (never seen one on the track) and the FireArrow, I've seen every one of those cars on top of the podium (the Arrow's been on the podium, just not the top). Curious as to why you left the Audis out?

I'd say that w/ a few exceptions, you've listed the cream / most popular cars in ITB (along w/ other variations, e.g. Jetta/Scirocco, TC3, etc.)



------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold)
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

So how much data have you got to this point, Bill? And has anyone told you that "formulas don't work" yet?

K

[Jake]

Bill, if you include the years of the vehicles, I can look up some of them.

Power-to-weight ratio is an excellent part of building an argument for a reclassification. Unfortunatly, due to current constraints of the CB, they cannot change the weight even if they change the class.

[Scirocco#28]

My JH solid lifter engine in my 87 scirocco, same as the 84 GTI dynoed at 105hp last year. They are advertised as stock 90hp. Unfortunatley I attempted to stretch it a bit when I pancaked the wall and split the block, so she's temporarily dead at the moment

[Jake]

Stock I think...

FireArrow 2.6L 2360lbs ?
Omni 2.2L 2320lbs 93
BMW 2002 2L 2280lbs 100
Volvo 142 2L 2640lbs 135
Golf GTI 1.8L 2280lbs 100
Rabbit GTI 1.8L 2180lbs 90
Geo Storm 1.6L 2380lbs 90

[ITBracer54]

Hey Scirocco #28, need any body parts for that 'roc? Just posted some on the classifieds. Fenders hood, doors deck with glass and wing....Need to clean out the garage.

Chris

[Joe Craven]

Unfortunatly ,hp numbers are really hard to come by. Well, numbers that are comparable and accurate. Accurate you question?

OK, I'll add my other ITB car to your list. I've never dynoed my VW so ....

1971 Ford Capri 2L 2300lbs

Ok, I had it dynoed at Vishnutuning shortly after I got the engine broken in. The Australian Dyno Dynamics machine measure my motor's rear wheel horsepower at a whopping 94.8HP. Of course, I was really disappointed but decided to make the best of it and have some fun racing in SCCA!

What I found out is that my car is very competitive and actually can run close to current track records in the SF region. I'm about .5 sec off the Sears Point record and able to keep up with the front running BMW 2002s on the straights. I'm sure I can break the record if I improve the handling a bit. My VW handles so much better and it actually might be faster at Sears Point now that I'm rebuilding my completely stock motor.

Back to HP, I found a spreadsheet at Vishnu's website that equalizes the HP readings of various dyno manufacturers. Here it is at
http://www.vishnutuning.com/How_Big_Is_You..._Horsepower.xls

Here are the numbers for various AWD dynos.
Dyno Brand RWHP
AWD Dyno Dynamics 95
AWD Dynapack 112
Dynamic Test Systems 129
AWD Dynojet 112
Approximated flywheel hp for the above figures is 133hp.

OK, the 133HP figure makes more sense why my Capri is relatively fast in the straights. The BMWs must have about the same power. I've noticed that ITB Alfa Romeos and Volvos pull me in the straights.

#37 ITB VW

[Bildon]

While I haven't had time yet to put all the responses together that I got into one coherent report... I can say that ITB is actually a pretty level playing field with the avg. Power/Weight ratio being consistent across the field.

There are of course a few exceptions but they are mostly with the cars that are not popular. However there is a certain Swedish car which seems to have a slight advantage wrt to power/weight.

...so if most of the points of our imaginary scattergram fall around a certain P/W point...why is the SCCA getting so much flak for it's classing of cars? That's another story with another couple hundred posts to it.

One other thought...in my discussions at the track with IT racers around this subject, one thing was pretty clear. Few of us have a problem with adding weight to cars who are faster.

SCCA are you listening? Don't scare off new members!


------------------
Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport
Volkswagen Racing Equipment
## 2002 ITB NYSRRC Champs ##

[Knestis]

So how did that '88-91 Honda CRX HF 1.5 stack up against the competition?

Seriously, I look forward to seeing the data. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. I will be particularly intrigued to see how many models you were able to find data for.

Kirk

[jcmgt2]

I'm watching the story on the reclassification closely. I know what car I will build if it goes through! If not, I'll convert my ITB Rocco to LPGP.

[tderonne]

Originally posted by Bildon:
While I haven't had time yet to put all the responses together that I got into one coherent report... I can say that ITB is actually a pretty level playing field with the avg. Power/Weight ratio being consistent across the field.

Really? A while back I looked at a few different cars. The ITB Prism and Storm at 130 HP seemed to be at a good ITA power:weight, if that's all you looked at. They, and a couple others, seemed pretty far ahead of 88 HP Mustangs and 100ish HP VWs.

[racer-025]

Don't forget the Suzuki Swift GTi. DOHC 1.3L 100hp, 1905lbs. I still believe I can get mine to run up front.

[madrabbit15]

its really hard to look at manufacturers HP ratings because some are pretty off. In a lot of hondas they actually understate some of the HP figures while in cars like the GEOs I believe have horrible over estimated figures. I dont know this for fact, but I have taken great care in comparing actual dyno results from stock cars. May the different manufacturers use different methods for rating HP, who know, but they are def not the same. A 130hp honda is gonna blow the doors off a 130hp geo. or probably even VW. So all this needs to be considered too. I think the geos look great on paper, but I have talk to people who have dynoed modified storms and they tell the figures are way off. just my two cents

[Bildon]

I was looking at IT Mod. DynoHP/Weight... not Marketing Brochure HP/weight.

[Knestis]

The piece of Bill's work that I think will be interesting is the comparison between the two figures for each car. How close to the theoretically simple 115% IT-prep mulitplier were they?

K