1993 Golf III in ITB

[Knestis]

Hey, don't you be running with that thing in here!

[tschwenke]

I think that the 125 at the wheel is a more accurate number also. I know what my A2 does and the 2L will do more. Not only that but the integral of the torque curve will yield a very powerful car. I don't care about that extra weight - it counts, but not much. I have come in heavy after a race and still managed good times. (They have it a 2350?)

With the accord being moved out, there is no reason this should be moved in. I know they need/want some new cars, but why not break up the A and S cars? B has a very good mix of cars and in my eyes, the A3 could dominate.

[Knestis]

Okay - (Joe and others) chime in. All things considered, which year/model gets the nod as the best option? Assume for a minute that (a) confirmation of the move to A comes this year, and ( that it wouldn't be a big deal to get the rest of the eligible-year MkIII Golfs listed once that happens.

Gear ratios? Sunroof? ABS (yeah, I know but I wouldn't just use the car for IT)? Rear discs? What else?

Kirk

[JOESELLSVW]

I think you meant to ay "the move to B" instead of "a", I'll forgive you. HA HA. As for gear ratios, ABA engines only came with AMC, CHE, DFQ series 020 transmissions. All of which have the same gear rations and final drive. The other 020 gearboxes came in the EcoDiesel and the Golf CL, both of which were Canadian cars, not for US consumption. So I guess there's no gearbox advantage. As for SR or not, I'd rather have a car without for the lower CG, but don't suggest holding your breath waiting for one. Getting a 93 or early 94 car could have the advantage of not being airbag equipped. Changing the steering wheels of the airbag cars isn't bad, but the passenger side airbag presents a problem in removing if you choose to do so. Selling the airbags is a way of recouping some of the cost of this "newer" IT model. The passenger airbag cover is integrated into the dash design. I'll let you know when I cross that bridge abouthow difficult it is to remove and retain the stock appearance. The question of the discs is also up in the air. I'm thinking that the weight distribution is a little better on the A3 cars (blind hope?) and this discs won't be overkill like o the A2 body cars. As for the ABS, without consulting my GCR, does ABS have to be removed or just disabled? What about the power steering rack? All of these cars came with power steering.... does his stay? More fuel on the fire... Joe P.S. Soon to be offered to a good home...87 Golf tub, welded sunroof, everything stripped out ready to be finished. I think I'll do an A3, but if you're on a budget and want a next to free start of a race car let me know...

[Knestis]

Sorry - yeah, "move to B". Duh. If every US-spec Golf III came with power steering, it has to be there.

ABS has to be disabled (disconnect/remove wheel sensors) but not necessarily removed. I like the idea of having it around for enduros and other events where IT rules aren't necessarily adhered to.

You might be the perfect guy (Joe) to make the request to list the other years, since you have access to all of the factory data to fill out the technical spec sheets. I just went through the process and some of the info required is pretty arcane - and I didn't want to submit an incomplete application and run the (increased) risk of getting tabled...

Email me ([email protected]) if you want to do this and I'll send copies of the blank forms and info on the process.

K

PS - it's funny but one of the very first questions that I asked on this forum (30+ months ago) was whether anyone was running the Golf III in ITA and if not, if it might be competitive.

[JOESELLSVW]

I'd be willing to do the leg work to get the other years on the same line as the 93 cars. please send me the forms... or tell me if I can download them off of the SCCA site. My email is [email protected] or my home address is 19 Price St. West Chester Pa 19382. The question would be though if we are asking the board to "see" the 96-early 99 GTI 4 cyl models the same as the earlier Golf Sport models. The differences being the ABS. If I remember correctly, theGolf Sports also had rear drums... have to check on this though. I'll also check on the VIN designations. I don't know if the same "loophole" that exists with the A2 cars withVIN designation between GTI and two door Golf allowing a GTI to "made" from a 0tandard Golf. I don't want to drop the ball and ask the board to look at too many things at once. I'm looking for a clean A3 as we speak. I figure I can start on the car as an autox car and see how it can progress as we get the other years classified. JOE

[Bill Miller]

You 'da man Joe!!!

BTW, I checked the 12 Hour entries and didn't see your name listed. Not running this year???

Next step, once it's classed in ITB, is to get it classed as a limited-prep GProd car!

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[JOESELLSVW]

Hey Bill, Yeah I was away at the beginning of the year and in fact if you look at the Endurance Racing posts on this page I was asking about the 12 HR back in Dec. I faxed my application and credit card number in.. but no entry. I'm thinking that I did it too early? I'll have to talk with the powers that be. If I can't work something out I'll see about renting a ride. My co drivers from last year want to do it, but have schedule conflicts. Hopefully I can make some headway on this A3 thing. I'm thinking abut going ahead and buiding one of these cars. Hey by the way, there is a GT4 Wabbit on EBay. last I saw it was up to $637. what a buy! There's also the IT rabbit from the NE region as well as another ITB prepped (?) A1 on E Bay. Lotsa VW's for sale.... hopefully we'll see some more new drivers this season. I'm thinking of doing the VIR enduro in two weeks... interested? Bill? Kirk? Dave? My car should be ready... God knows I've replacing it piece by piece! JOE

[Bill Miller]

Joe,

I don't think they started taking entries until 1/1/03, so if you sent it in before that, it was too early. Looks like there are already several cars on the 'waiting list'. I know when we talked last year, you said you wanted to run again, w/ a better setup. I was going to offer to crew-chief the car for you, if you needed one.

Got the links to those ebay cars?

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[Corradoracer]

Maybe one of you guys can tell me were to find one of these cars. I have looked for months for a good two-door 1993 street car, good luck.

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Gary Semerdjian
#98 Corrado ITS

[Knestis]

Someone just needs to take the hour required to fill out the paperwork to request classification of all eligible years. Then it wouldn't be necessary to find a rare '93. Golf and GTI, 2-door and 4-door, all at the same weight...

Kirk

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Someone just needs to take the hour required to fill out the paperwork to request classification of all eligible years. Then it wouldn't be necessary to find a rare '93. Golf and GTI, 2-door and 4-door, all at the same weight...

Kirk

Kirk,

I'm not really up on the A3 model line, but I'm not really crazy about doing what they did w/ the A2 cars in ITB. I think they got forced into that because there was no way to tell the cars apart vis-a-vis the VIN#. Also, I don't know what the differences were between the 8v GTI and the regular Golf (how many 8v A3 GTI's did they make? Joe?). Most were 16v cars or VR6 cars. Wait, that's it, class the A3 GTI VR6 in ITB!!!!



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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[HOOSER 99]

CORRADORACER If you keep checking cars.com you might have some luck. As far as finding a 93 maybe not, but hopefully we can get the newer ones class. good luck

jerry monaghan

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jerry monaghan

[shwah]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Also, I don't know what the differences were between the 8v GTI and the regular Golf (how many 8v A3 GTI's did they make? Joe?). Most were 16v cars or VR6 cars. Wait, that's it, class the A3 GTI VR6 in ITB!!!</font>

In the A2 cars - the later 8V GTI and regular Golf are identical from 1989 or 90 on (for the purposes of IT). Same motor, same brakes, same body.

There were no 16V A3 cars. The 1993 Golf Sport is what became the 4 cyl 8v GTI in later years for the A3 body.

I like having them all lumped onto one line, because it makes a lot more cars available for road racing. The only differences are that a few cars have rear disk brakes (again this is the only difference that matters for IT considerations - there were likely some suspension differences, but we don't really care about that).

Chris

[JOESELLSVW]

The paperwork for Topeka will be going out this week. Basically there are no differences in the 4 cyl GTI cars and the Golfs other than 2 vs 4 doors, and the GTI's had rear disc brakes (not a real issue) and ABS, again not an IT issue. Powertrain was identical, no change in hp or torque spec, gear ratios all the same. The differences in these cars are all either cosmetic, ie: white faced gauges, different interiors etc. The Golf Sports are desirable because of the possiblility of getting one w/o a sunroof and the fact that they didn't have ABS... one less piece of work to do in setting up the car. If you come across an early 94 car, it won't have airbags, however, halfway through the year the airbags were introduced. I'm trying to get some acurate info on the differences in the VIN codes that differentiate the Golfs from the GTI's, however I'm not sure how much value it'd have since it's quite obvious... 2/4 doors. VW also d1d a Golf City edition that would be very desireable to make into a race car... these cars were "dedcontented" This means that they didn't have sunroofs or a/c like the oother A3 cars. This was an ill fated marketing attempt to lower the base model price on the new VW's because of lack of price competitveness with the Asian brands. Good luck finding one of those! JOE

[itbgti]

Joe,

Thank you VERY much for doing the leg work and sending out the paperwork...I did not know someone had already taken that step. Please be sure to post here with any responses you receive. Once again, THANKS!

Regards,
Alan

edit: Joe, can you post here what you sent? I am curious to see if you asked for all the model years, and what supporting materials you used. Thanks!

[This message has been edited by itbgti (edited March 11, 2003).]

[HOOSER 99]

There is a 95 gti with salvage title on ebay at 500.00 and a 97 with door damage on cars.com for 1700.00. I think both are in Maryland.
Does anybody know the overall length of a 2 door A3 or where I can find out.

thanks jerry



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jerry monaghan
itb 99

[JOESELLSVW]

Hey, stay away from that car! Lol! That's mine! It's a no reserve auction for a car that needs some body work as well as a motor and trans. It does have a sunroof however. JOE

[itbgti]

Hey Jerry, don't go the A3 route....that was my idea Hope everything is going well and to see you this year at LRP (although I will not be on track, I will be there)

Joe,

If you could respond to my above post, that would be great...sorry to be a pest, but I have a GREAT interest in this topic....cough, cough, wink, wink

Thanks,
Alan

[JOESELLSVW]

I'm about to send it out if I can put together the time to complete some of the details! I'm asking for all Golf 4 cyl two door hatchback models from 93-99 to be specified. I know that they won't specify the later models, but I'm going out of my way to make a point as a favor to anyone who'll have to do this later that the cars are the same. I wasn't going to ask to have the Jetta or Golf GL four door cars included, but if some other people would like for me to do so I will. There are no mechanical differences regaring engine/trans spec. Just the the stuff that you can see.... Hopefully later in the week I'll get this stuff up and ready. JOE