Newb

[D_Bat]

Hey hey. i am looking forward to buying this 1986 or so VW Jetta Coupe and although it has some rust around the windows I think it would be a great personal race car for ITB. the guy is selling it for 200 dollars and it has no sun roof, run, but needs a new clutch. so that's that on the car. It does have A/C that does run so i can get some money for that to fund for the car.

I am wondering what I should do to get it to a semi/low competitive level car. I am not looking to be 1st or even in the middle. I dont care if I get last as long as I am having fun driving out there. So what should I do to at least be ahead of ONE car out there. hehe. That's all I ask.

I know the suspension will be gone so that has to be done, and it is essential. New springs, shocks, bushings, and all that. I don't know what kind of compression it is but it is a 8v, 1.8l. I will get the engine code later to see. I used to own a 86 jetta Gl and it was my first baby and I did all my own work so if yall start talking and all I will be able to understand.

Ya. Its gunna be a cheap car. Do you guys think I can get away with spending 2000 dollars on it for a total of 2200 dollars with buying the car?? I know lots of places where i can get used parts and some sorta new parts for cheap so I think it might be able to happen, pass that one or two cars I mean. Thanx.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

[BEM]

You are better off to take the $2200 and find a car already built up, that has been raced. I tired to do the same thing you are suggesting with a 1973 BMW 2002, and ended up spending a fortune on a car that never saw the track.

[D_Bat]

Ya really think it can't be done to well?? I have worked on VWs for a few years now and they aren't to hard to work on, well..... the 4 cylinders aren't at least and I have a few people around me that race the same class around me and I have one friend to help me work on the car. I know I will prolly spend more than 2200, prolly more like 4000 because I will be like....... "Hey, 30 dollars more for a performance this that will help, OK!!!!!" and then "Why not spend the extra 200 to get that while the block is taken apart" heh. Ya. That will happen but isn't the BMW a little different??? Aren't they more expensive in general for parts and other such. I dun really know.

Also. I really really wanna make a car and have fun with it. If I get a premade car I can't "explore" the whole car. I haven't actually taken a whole car apart or anything yet but I have worked on engines, trannies and other such things for VWs. I dunno. I am going to try and do the most stuff I can at home without taking it to the shop and what not, it all depends on what the rules are and what actually needs to be done to the car to get it to be a track reliable 2nd to last place car. Hehe. I will start looking at premade cars though. Most I have seen cost up around 4000 though and some are just 800 or so for the motor. Crazy stuff.

[Knestis]

Reality check (from someone who tried to do what you describe - twice)...

1. It will cost you WAY more to build your first car than to buy it, assuming equal quality parts.

2. The learning curve is so steep that it is very likely that you will do something wrong/illegal and will have to spend more money fixing it.

3. If $4000 seems crazy for an IT car with a log book, you better not spend any money at all until you have spent some time hanging out at races, to get a handle on what it really costs. If you CAN find a legal IT VW for $4000, that is about as cheap as it is ever going to get.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but there are some really unavoidable (and harsh) realities in this game. If you really want to build a race car, the best way to do that is to help someone do it with their money. If you want to race, the best way is not to build your first one.

Kirk

[D_Bat]

I'm not looking to be crazy with the car. I know it is going to be at least a good year or two before I get the thing totally built for ITB and I still need to get all my liscences, take driving school, and get some more track time in because I don't have any at all. 4000 dollars doesn't sound crazy at all. I know that I could easily spend up around 20,000 dollars on the car but I don't want to be in the front of the pack nor do I want to be in the middle. I want to have fun, drive to drive, not to get first. The passion to drive I think is better than the passion to get first. If I get a good place then that is just a good side dish. Oh ya. I plan on trading parts for parts since I have access to a bunch of cheap parts, engines, bodys, and junk cars that I can get for real cheap. Like I said above, the car is being sold for 200 dollars. The guy has about 10 other water cooled VWs that I can pick at and then I have my friend up in ohio to help me make a roll cage, weld it in and all welding that I need or custom fabricating that I need.

Its prolly gunna be a good 2 years to 3 years that I will finally see IT-B. I dont know what other track races there are out there because of how new I am but along the way of making my car I am sure I will find some that I can enter to get more track time before I make it into IT.

Your not being harsh. Your just going by your judgement that you have seen from my posts not knowning what I know and what I know. Say what you want, any help is appreciated, even if I already know it. Its nice to know that people are reading this and trying to help.

Oh ya. I am just hoping to trade my garage full of parts for parts for this car and and then spend the 4k or so on the parts that I would abolutly need, and I know that since this will take longer I will have more money to spend on it. 4K is just from THIS summer. I think I have a good few grand in my garage.

Oh ya. Can't I basically use my stock block and all??

oh ya. idea just popped in my head. brakes. I totally forgot about brakes. Hehe. Can I get Raddo brakes and put it on there, the 11" fronts or is the illegal?? If so then I can just upgrade to the GTI/GLI front/rear discs.

I don;t know all the rules but are they that hard to follow if I'm not going all out on the car?? Stock ignition, stock fuel system, stock engine or maybe P&P.

Peace. Thanx again. Info = Good



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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

[RSTPerformance]

I say go for it! I'm probably a lot like you where the satisfaction of building a project that works is as much of the fun as actually being on the track.

Advice #1
Get a rule book! we call it a GCR.
(General Competition Rules)

Advice #2
Strip the car, the entire interior. Purchase a seat, window net and belts. Then send it to someone to build you a legal IT role cage. (and seat mounts.) have them install the seat belts and window net. (Never be skimpy on safety!) This will probably cost between $800-$1200. When you get the car back take the time to put the interior back in the way you like it.
You now have a running car that has all the safety needs to race.

Advice # 3
Call someone like shine racing service or ground control and tell them you are on a limited budget.... about $1000 and you would like coil overs, cheap struts that will last a few races, camber plates, and if money is left a rear swaybar. I would think for 400 you got coil overs, another 200 you have some sheap struts, camber plates about 250 and the rear sway bar about 150.
You now have a car that runs, has a semi decent suspension that will get you around the track, in a safe car. all for about $2200.

Advice #4
take it slow do as much as you can on your own, ask questions and try to learn from others mistakes to make it cheaper for yourself.

Advice #5
You will be racing for last but if you buy stuff that is good from the begining (In my example the only thing you waist is 200 bucks for cheapo struts..... later spend 800 on adjustable ones) I have spent no more than 5000 on my car over 3 years and usually run in the top 4 or 5. At watkins glen I was only .7 off the short track record! and usually within 1 sec of first at lime rock and NHIS. (The track records are way faster at those tracks than a normal day.)

Advice #6
Figure out your cost per weekend to race before you jump head first into it and make sure you can afford it.
entry fees are usually about 200
gas is going to be at least 20
oil will be about 20
tires can be used for 100 or new for 800 you decide
towing gas
food
Then you need to ad the preventative maintanance things liek brakes, wheel bearings, rotors.
ect. ect. ect. it adds up quick!

Good luck on your new venture.

Stephen

[RSTPerformance]

wow I forgot something!

Have you planned on buying drivers suit, helmet, gloves, shoes, fire extinguisher, and all those other safety things. This doesn't count as part of the cost of the car but it sure does count as part of the cost of racing

Stephen

[RSTPerformance]

sorry double posted somehow!
Stephen

[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited April 29, 2003).]

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Do you guys think I can get away with spending 2000 dollars on it for a total of 2200 dollars with buying the car?</font>

There's an ITB Rabbit GTi for sale in the New England Region PitTalk for only $3500. If I wasn't into a car now I'd jump on that instead...

GregA

[D_Bat]

RST Performance. You hit it right in the bulls eye. I love working on my car and spending the time to make it nice. Along with that goes the hours and long nights of searching for the best equipment and lowest prices. Ya. half my time that I spend on my car is on the internet and in the papers looking for cheap equipment.

I looked into some used race hardware, suits, gloves, and all that and its going to be a few hundred there which is no problem. Those items can be bought sepretaly and would pose for a good birthday or christmas present. hehe. any ways.

I love shine racing. I have heard nothing but good from them and I think for 750 or soemthing like that when they had their old website up you could get a semi nice suspension but......... since this is a track only car then wouldn't I want to get some really nice 800lb or soemthing springs. Sorry of my number is off. I know the rear needs lighter too. But besides that it would move the price up a little. 1000 would be a nice number.

Up in ohio I have a friend that just bought a awesome welder and he can weld basically any metal from aluminum, tungston, steel and what not so I might over the summer see if I can get my friend down here with his truck to tow the car up there and have him weld me in a roll cage and all the safety things I need and if he can get rid of the small amount of rust around the window that it has.

Oh ya. I wanna be different and run with a Jetta Coupe. Call me a Jetta Junkie but I have had 2 already and this will be my 3rd. I'm 18 years old too. hehe. Ya. I'm a youngin.

I am going to go all out on the questions. Since I have a all VW junkyard out there I am going to be asking what I can take from what and put in here and there and what is the best way to set up this and that. Your going to be sick of me. muaaahaaahahaaaaa.

I guess and more realistic thing to look at would be around 4000 with trading and selling my old parts that I hae in my garage.

Brakes are fun too. I looked at them. I will probably spend a good 500 dollars to switch to rear discs, get propotioning valves, get all new vented ATE rotors, and some nice EBC Greenstuff pads or so or what ever you guys recomend. Braking power is just as important as going power. Gotta love the red painted rear drums on a dropped Honda. Sorry. had to add that in.

I didn't know entry fees were that expensive. 200 dollars!!! wow. that's some crazy stuff.

Thanx again. Sorry to make all my posts so long. peace.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

[Bill Miller]

I'll take the opportunity for some shameless self-promotion. My ITB Rabbit GTI is for sale for $3500. It's listed in the classifieds if you're interested. Just to put it in perspective, just the cage and suspension cost more than $3500.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[ILenhart]

D_Bat,
My loss your gain! I have 2 ITB A1 GTI'S that I have lost interest in. I put a rod through the block in one and the motor is out of 2nd car waiting for head gasket and reinstallation. No time and I would love more garage space. Located in Kenosha, WI.
asking $1500 & $2500 for 2nd car. Price as is! Email me if anyone is interested.

Ian
[email protected]

[D_Bat]

aaaawwwwww man. I might have gotten the first car if I had the money but I still need to sell a few parts to get even up to the 700 dollar range and i am going to be spending the money I MAKE over the summer, not the money i actually have now, otherwise I would do it. I can get a engine for the car no problem. The guy near me sells them for like 100 to 200 dollar each and they run. i can get a GTI 8v for that much with the high compression and all.

Sorry to disappoint you.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by D_Bat:
Brakes are fun too. I looked at them. I will probably spend a good 500 dollars to switch to rear discs, get propotioning valves, get all new vented ATE rotors, and some nice EBC Greenstuff pads or so or what ever you guys recomend. Braking power is just as important as going power. Gotta love the red painted rear drums on a dropped Honda. Sorry. had to add that in.

I love the enthusiasim but definetly get a rule book before you get or buy anything! Everyhting in the previous paragraph is against the rules, except the brake shoes and the red paint I would recomend Shine Racing Service. we race against there cars every race and they always do well with well setup cars. I think they have all the advice and knowledge on VW's as well. tell them what you cna spend and they will tell you what to get.

Stephen

[D_Bat]

Some of the VWs did come with rear disc brakes so they were stock on some of them which means I could put the stock rear discs on right?? I didn't know about the brands of pads but you can switch your car to the "best" stock setup right?

[shwah]

Originally posted by D_Bat:
Some of the VWs did come with rear disc brakes so they were stock on some of them which means I could put the stock rear discs on right?? I didn't know about the brands of pads but you can switch your car to the "best" stock setup right?

aw man! What happened to all my text? Ok here goes again.

It looks like the Jetta is listed on one line for 2 door and 4 door versions. The GLI came with disks so you could add them, but to be honest you don't need much rear braking force. They also list the 8.5:1 motor, but I know the 10:1 motor came in the GLIs and in all later A2 Jettas. I guess someone needs to petition the SCCA to correct the information.

For your stated goals and budget I recommend running a stock motor with a header initially. It will be reliable and cheaper to get going. Spend your $$ on suspension, safety equipment and drivetrain components (new hubs, bearings, CVs etc.). Then as time and money allows put in a trans with a lower final drive and a locked or limited slip diff, and build a motor to the rules. And of course at all times have fun.

I did basically the same thing, starting with a free no sunroof, no AC 1986 GTI about 2 years ago. I traded parts, found deals on used stuff and did most of the work myself. The car was just completed, and I will be getting my competition license this year. I have a stock 50k mile motor with a header, bought a second hand Ground Control suspension with Konis, re-engineered some old bottom mount camber plates to top mount and used a bolt in cage. Total cost was about $3500 including driver safety gear, but I will get tires before running so $4000+ is a legitimate number to shoot for. I will be changing to a custom welded cage in a year or two and building an IT spec motor for the future. Hopefully a new trans will be in by years end, but regardless I will be out there learning and having fun.

I was lucky to have some freinds with lots of IT experience in A2 VWs, and it was an invaluable resource. I would only recommend tackling this project if you have similar 'advisors' available to help you.

Good Luck
Chris


[This message has been edited by shwah (edited April 30, 2003).]

[D_Bat]

I have one friend in Ohio, which is really far away form me and I have a company here in town that has a few cars in IT racing. Company is called atlantic auto works.

What exactly is a IT spec motor??? I thought you could only run stock motors with a few changes. From what I know a IT spec motor would be a stock GTI high compression motor with new pistons to bring up the compression to 10.5:1 and a full balance of the motor, new oil pan/windage tray with oil cooler, and a big valve head or seomthing from one of the VWs. I forget which A2 had the biggest valves. Also. I know the digifant intake and all flows better than the CIS cars but....... they are harder to tweek and all because of their ECU. I would like to mix and match digi parts and CIS parts but it isn't possible. Oh well. I think the digis were the ones with the bigger valves, I think but I am not sure. any ways. Nice find. Hopefully I can pull a few strings and get some nice deals. I don't plan on having this car done soon and hopefully I can get a friend to help finance and all. I have a friend that wanted to make a car like this a while ago but he had financial issues and that was a year ago and I haven't really talked to him since so I got rid of my old A2 4door Jetta but now I have this and maybe he will do it again.

[DoorDoctor]

Rethink your dream of trying to go sports car club racing on a budget. You can't.
The people who do this have deep pockets.
The entry fee's and tires alone will kill your wallet in a hurry. Go to some races and volunteer to work the event. Only then will you get a feel for how expensive it is to be a race car driver.

[D_Bat]

we'll see how I do. If anything then I can stil do autocross with the car and have some fun with it on different things that aren't neccessarily IT racing. IT is just a goal. my main goal is to have fun.

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1998 VW Jetta GLX
Past Away - 1986 VW Jetta GL

[Rick Phelps]

Originally posted by D_Bat:
I have one friend in Ohio, which is really far away form me and I have a company here in town that has a few cars in IT racing. Company is called atlantic auto works.

What exactly is a IT spec motor??? I thought you could only run stock motors with a few changes. From what I know a IT spec motor would be a stock GTI high compression motor with new pistons to bring up the compression to 10.5:1 and a full balance of the motor, new oil pan/windage tray with oil cooler, and a big valve head or seomthing from one of the VWs. I forget which A2 had the biggest valves. Also. I know the digifant intake and all flows better than the CIS cars but....... they are harder to tweek and all because of their ECU. I would like to mix and match digi parts and CIS parts but it isn't possible. Oh well. I think the digis were the ones with the bigger valves, I think but I am not sure. any ways. Nice find. Hopefully I can pull a few strings and get some nice deals. I don't plan on having this car done soon and hopefully I can get a friend to help finance and all. I have a friend that wanted to make a car like this a while ago but he had financial issues and that was a year ago and I haven't really talked to him since so I got rid of my old A2 4door Jetta but now I have this and maybe he will do it again.

Your questions are all answered in the GCR.
Racing at even this "entry" level is costly. Do you plan to sleep in your car? Entry fees are more like 3-400 $ for a week end. More to add a practice day Your posts sound like you are in High School. Do you have a rich Mommy or Daddy?
Good luck but there ain't no free lunch out there!