Audi Coupe GT

[RacerDoc]

Looking for information from anyone racing a Coupe GT in ITB. Set-up data. Wheel bearing failures like the A-1 GTIs? What transmission are you running etc.

Thanks, Doug

[OTLimit]

Note to self: buy only GOOD wheel bearings; no parts store crap, and replace at prudent intervals.

That's the first item on our list if we ever get one to the track (and not just in my driveway). This seems to be the solution.

[racerdrew43]

Wheel bearing problems? Your not rolling the car around without the axles are you?

[RSTPerformance]

RacerDoc-

We have been running the Audi's for 4 years and have several (I repeat SEVERAL) suggestions... Maybe drop us an e-mail or a call and we can chat... depending on where you are planning on racing !!!

JK the more Audi's the more fun... We have done (so we think) very well and we have learned a lot. Here is an answer to your questions:

Wheel bearings is one thing that I/we get very scared of… sometimes they last over a year other times they last less than 1 weekend… We now only go to one person to have them pressed in and they are aware that they need to be perfect as they will be used in a “racing environment.” The thing that really stinks is that the bearings break without warning and the car will continue to turn, and steer fine, then when you hit the brakes the wheel will rip off the front corner of the car and you will have no brakes, and no steering (usually outside wheel) grab, hold, and pray if this happens to you!!! It has happened to both my brother an I a couple times… we now try to replace them every 4 race weekends, or before an enduro. My brother says that he can smell the wheel bearing heating up. He has pulled into the pits and yes they will be very hot and will smoke enough to notice when you stop in pit lane… the unfortunate part is once you have pulled in to pit lane the race is over and you thus when you smell a funny smell you will question yourself… is that the smell??? One other suggestion… Tighten Axle nuts before every session as you do with your lug bolts.

Most likely you have the transmission in your car that is best (I will figure out the ‘Code” and post later)… it is hard to find one that doesn’t have the gear ratio you want, every car we have bought has the same ratio. The Quattro’s had a couple different ratios (most popular being from an ‘84, but most of the coupe’s had the same ratio. Someone did once get a transmission configuration legal that might be a better ratio (I think it was Irish Mike in Florida) however as far as everyone that I have talked to this transmission never actually existed in any Audi Coupe that is legal for ITB. If you can figure out what that ratio was (I can’t remember, it was in fast track at some point) and what car to find it in let me know, we would love to try it!!!

Also an FYI: Despite everyone thinking that they are very expensive to build we have done it very, very cheaply and we have found ourselves occupying the entire front row as well as a couple wins... We have basically designed everything on the cars on our own... their isn't much choice on a lot of things as their were not many “performance” options for a non-turbo/non-Quattro Audi 5cyl. We have however made a few, and my first suggestion is camber plates… They will pay for themselves within 1 weekend.

You will find a lot of Audi lovers out their who know a lot about the cars… you will find you will get a lot of ideas, lots of people give suggestions we have tried a ton of different things even creating a CIS-E injection that would work without the computer… The ideas are all great however BE CAREFULL, most of them don’t change anything!!! The cars are very temperamental and just as every Audi mechanic says, “you bring them in to fix one thing and it leaves with some other problem.”

Hope this info helps...

Raymond
RST Performance Racing

PS: Does anyone know if Phil Phillips sold his ITB Audi Coupe GT yet???

[RacerDoc]

Yes, we bought it. Going to massage the body a little. Do you know if the front hubs and bearings are the same as the VW Fox; they are bigger than the Rabbit GTI. I have heard that they don't break as often as Rabbit bearings; apparently some guys have the bearing carriers machined to take the Fox bearing and use Fox hubs.
Thanks for your reply.
Doug

[RSTPerformance]

"Do you know if the front hubs and bearings are the same as the VW Fox; they are bigger than the Rabbit GTI. I have heard that they don't break as often as Rabbit bearings; apparently some guys have the bearing carriers machined to take the Fox bearing and use Fox hubs."

Is that legal??? If so then that might be a secret that Phil got from Shine Racing... I know that Shine built all the suspension that is in that car. You might want to check with him what suspension parts they used.

Raymond
RST Performance Racing

PS: Congrats on the purchase... lots of $$$ invested in it, it is a fast car. Where are you from and where do you plan on racing it???

[itbgti]

Raymond,

You are right that swapping the hubs from a Fox into an Audi is not a legal swap, UNLESS they are the same exact part, which I doubt.

Shine did not do the whole suspension on that car as far as I am aware of. I believe that the fronts are Phil's custom set up, as to the legality, I have no idea, I am pretty sure Phil stuck to the rules. But anyway, that car is pretty fast. I still agree with Shine that the Audi in ITB should be a KILLER car, one definite weakness as has been pointed out is the hubs, and also that the front suspension, to do it "right" costs a lot.

Regards,
Alan

[RSTPerformance]

RacerDoc,

I'll interupt just for a second! (Afterall I am way faster than Raymond ) Anyway, My input would be to take Phil's car and run through it and make sure it meets YOUR safty requirments. Then I would drive the car and see what you like and dislike. Phil has taken lot's of time and money to make the car the way it is!

There is a big difference between our car and your car. We have Coupe's and you have a coupe GT. You have bigger brakes and a bigger bolt pattern! This may be more reliable but I'm not sure since we have not tested it. I would recomend changing the hubs every 5 hrs of track time. For Example I changed my hubs before the last enduro at WG even though it didn't seem as though they needed to be. No slop no smell, just replaced to be cautious. After they had been taken out they showed considerable wear. (Always ask for them back to see what type of problems you may have) And yes you can smell them when you start to "cook" them. Other than that check all your ground wires! And check the exaust. Car runs terribly without an o2. As far as setup...... NEGATIVE CAMBER! The car has an engine in front of the front wheels..... it loves to plow (and I don't mean snow!)

My list of people that I would recomend that are very knowledgable and that have raced these cars:
SRS (Shine Racing)
Mike Flynn (Florida Region)
Steve And Pam Mcnary.

Stephen (AKA The faster one)


[This message has been edited by RSTPerformance (edited January 23, 2003).]

[Jiveslug]

I was cruising thru this thread and thought Id throw an idea out there in an effort to help you guys. In regards to the front hubs, why dont you petition the CB to allow you to use the Fox set-up? I know this sounds like a comp adjustment, but its really for a reliability/safety issue. The CB has, in the past, allowed for certain changes very similar to what you are talking about for those reasons. The ITS Oldsmobiles come to mind. They are allowed to run the rear hubs and disc brakes off the Saturn SC2 for the very reason that the OE hubs are of abysmal quality. Make a few calls and write a few letters and you SHOULD be able to get help with this situation. Good luck!

Jive

[RacerDoc]

Guys I did not mean to imply that Phil had said anything like that. He did not. The source of that info was another Rabbit racer, I believe he may have gotten that info from one of those VW shops down South. I don't know anyone who has actaully done it. It would not be legal at all. It is a good idea to petiton the comp board, it would seem to be a no-brainer, safety vs some imaginary competitive advantage.......let me see... if I was SCCA what would one do? Oh well rules are rules. Question....
Phils car has a stock fuel tank, the rear deck is bul-headed as required. Some techy made him bulk-head in the trunk, around the fuel filler area of the quarter panel and the other side, I don't understand that one, it has nothing to do with the passenger compartment, do you guys have similar bulk-head panels in the trunk? I have to take them out just to see what the h*&l they are there for. I have built six IT cars and have never run into any such requirement at tech. Yeah it does have a butt load of camber dialed in. Have you run on Kuhmo's? I know Hoosiers like alot of camber, have heard Kuhmo's don't need as much. Kuhmo's?? an economy thing, I have a FC to campaign this year too, wanna see the tire budget for it?
Thanks for the help,

Doug

[Bill Miller]

Doug,

When I went from Kumhos to Hoosiers on the GTI, I found just the opposite to be true, the Hoosiers liked less camber than the Kumhos. However, YMMV.

BTW, Doug built my car!

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
SCCA 279608

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by RacerDoc:
Guys I did not mean to imply that Phil had said anything like that. He did not. The source of that info was another Rabbit racer, I believe he may have gotten that info from one of those VW shops down South. I don't know anyone who has actaully done it. It would not be legal at all. It is a good idea to petiton the comp board, it would seem to be a no-brainer, safety vs some imaginary competitive advantage.......let me see... if I was SCCA what would one do? Oh well rules are rules. Question....
Phils car has a stock fuel tank, the rear deck is bul-headed as required. Some techy made him bulk-head in the trunk, around the fuel filler area of the quarter panel and the other side, I don't understand that one, it has nothing to do with the passenger compartment, do you guys have similar bulk-head panels in the trunk? I have to take them out just to see what the h*&l they are there for. I have built six IT cars and have never run into any such requirement at tech. Yeah it does have a butt load of camber dialed in. Have you run on Kuhmo's? I know Hoosiers like alot of camber, have heard Kuhmo's don't need as much. Kuhmo's?? an economy thing, I have a FC to campaign this year too, wanna see the tire budget for it?
Thanks for the help,

Doug

Doug,

We have had to make adjustments to the rear bulkhead to cover areas where the Rollcage attached. and for the small holes that the rear seat cliped into. Other than that no problems. I did have to pop rivit in a panel where the trunk plug used to be. To prevent any road Debris from flying in and hitting the tank. I'm not sure why yuu would need to do anything else as long as nothing can get from the trunk to the interior. Along the quarter panel it is open to the interior if the interior panel is left off. If he didn't put this panel back in it may have promted the tech guys to make him do this since the filler runs adjecent to this opening.

We did run on Kuhmo's last year at the Glen. We ran pretty much the same set up we ran at Lime Rock. However it was our first time there, it was an Enduro, and 2 of the drivers had never driven my car. Needless to say we didn't get to play with it much! We ran the entire 3 hrs plus 45 min. of practice and I would feel completly comfortable running them again for a few more weekends.

As far as the hubs are concerned... Phil had a lot of trouble at first then he got a new "Corner" that seemed to make it much better. I think he said the Geometry was incorrect on the first one that was built. I think that most VW are replacing hubs and bearings at least once a year, so we are in the same situation that they are.

Stephen

[RSTPerformance]

Doug-

I hope the project is comming along... When do you plan on hitting the track... spring time??? Do you have you licence? and will you be racing in the NARRC series (Pocono, Lime Rock, NHIS, Glen??? We are hoping to see you at all those tracks!!! Let us know, maybe we can "paddock" near each other and lend helping hands...

Raynond
RST Performance Racing

[RacerDoc]

Raymond,

We are in the DC region, live near Gettysburg,Pa. My father and my wife will be running the car primarily. Probably MARRS, Glen, LRP, Rausch Creek, maybe Pocono. I am going to run some practice days in the car, my primary focus is running in Formula Continental this year. I need to put on a new front fender, and fabricate an airdam. Generally go through the car, not really expecting to have to do much though. Let me know when and where you guys are going to run, it would be fun to race together. Paula likes Summit Point, my father will run anywhere; he wants to make LRP (1st time for him), Glen (he likes that track), probably Pocono as he is in NNJ. I'll run anywhere, I am not hooked to a series this year, I want to get my FC sorted and do some more development work with it. Doug

[JOESELLSVW]

Hey Racer Doc, Not that far away from you is Morgan's Auto Parts.. well, it's closer to me here in West Chester.. but if you need some parts these guys will have them for you I bet... I'll post the number here in a few days... they're really good guys and like to helpout racers. A lot of A1 , A2 and Scirocco parts also JOE

[Eric Parham]

FYI, FWD VW Fox, VW Quantum, Audi 4000 and Audi Coupe front hubs and bearings are the SAME. 4WD may differ, as may anything with a bolt circle bigger than 4x100mm.

[therooster]

Some of the CGT's run a 4x108 bolt pattern which is the same as the quattro and will then have the larger bearings. Started sometime in late 1984 as a midyear change, I think. All 85's run the 4X108 pattern