Junior Member
Cam Question
I just purchased a hydraulic G Grind cam for my ITB '86 Golf GTI. However, what arrived had the following markings stamped on the cam, 027.7 on one side and 280 on the other. It does have the VW and Audi stamping in the center but I thought it should be stamped with 026 and G. Does anyone know if I have the correct cam? Thanks.
Senior Member
i hope u know that that cam is not legal in ITB........
Senior Member
After numerous protests, etc, in the past, the mechanical "G" grind camshaft was declared legal only in the 1500/1600cc engines for ITC. Don't have any knowledge that your cam is legal in ITB but don't think it is. Regards, Ryan.
Senior Member
What you bought was an American ground cam...
It is illegal for ITB. It's also only sold as a G grind for marketing reasons.
The G grind was found on early European 1.6 GTIs and by some strange chance a Scirroco that had docs to prove it to the SCCA.
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport Volkswagen Racing Equipment
Senior Member
Guys,
First off, he said hydraulic. The 026G is a legal hydraulic cam for ITB AFAIK. I'm not sure what the 027.7 is. If you can give me the part #, I can check my ETKA for you.
The G-grind (solid lifter) cam is legal in ITC. Seems that it's the supreseding replacement cam for the 1.6 motors. Not sure how or why, but that's the story I heard from Denver. I wish I knew why it didn't get added for the solid-lifter 1.8 GTI's.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
Senior Member
Guys,
First off, he said hydraulic. The 026G is a legal hydraulic cam for ITB AFAIK. I'm not sure what the 027.7 is. If you can give me the part #, I can check my ETKA for you.
The G-grind (solid lifter) cam is legal in ITC. Seems that it's the supreseding replacement cam for the 1.6 motors. Not sure how or why, but that's the story I heard from Denver. I wish I knew why it didn't get added for the solid-lifter 1.8 GTI's.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
Senior Member
Bill,
Does that mean a ITC Rabbits can not use a G cam? Even though it is legal per SCCA I'd still like to see this written proof that was used to proof it was ever used in a USA model 1600cc Scirroco. All SCCA says when I call is it's approved but offer no proof and act like it's a big _____ secret to devulge this proof. Rumor has it that it was just verbal and there's no factory documentation to proof it. Show me the MONEY!!!
Those that wish to torch me have at it, None of you or the SCCA has offered up anything in a factory manual, technical update, that shows the G cam came in a USA delivered Scirroco. Show me the MONEY!!!
If it's a superceded part then why isn't it listed on the ITCS data sheets for Scirrocos. What's done ain't done if it was not done right or not done in the interest of fair play. Talk is cheap. Show me the MONEY!!!
I can proudly say that I carry with me and will gladly show anyone why a piece of chrome trim is missing because it is NLA from the factory on my car. If I wanted I could show written proof to the SCCA a list of my NLA parts and then I could substitute or maybe go without the hood, doors, fenders, trunk, grill, bumpers, cam, head as they are NLA. The only body parts available are used ones or use what's availabe such as new fiberglass ones. The only cams or used or new one's that have more lift and duration. The only heads available are used or new ones that have bigger ports and valves. Do I do these thing to gain an advantage over my competitors? NO. It's stupid, but I could with the way the rules are written.
If just one Scirroco came to the States with a G cam even by accident that should not make it representative of how the other 99.9% of the cars was delivered to the States. There are Japanese and Euorpean cars like mine that came to the States and had 10 more HP but that was not representitive of the 99.9% that came to the States.
I'm still having a hard time getting over this G cam matter. Everyone I know that's got a long history with VW's tell me its BS.
I'll stop whining and crawl back in my hole.
Later,
Harry
Senior Member
There are no aftermarket cams allowed for ITB.
If he means that he bought a used cam (or NOS stock cam) then they would have the markings he expected to see but did not.
I assumed (silly me) that he was referring to the VW Motorsport "G grind" cams that a very well know VW retailer sells for Hydro cars...they are not IT legal (and they are not VW Motorsport parts either).
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport Volkswagen Racing Equipment
Senior Member
Harry,
You really need to get over it. This was resolved in 1994! According to the Protest/Appeals in the February 1994 SportsCar (I clipped it and saved it in my racing folder just in case), there were letters and homologation forms from VW, as well as copies of the VW parts microfiche supplied to the SCCA. And Jim Leithauser was involved as well as SCCA's Technical Director at the time and he's always been a straight shooter. But in reality, why are you worrying about the VW's in ITC? Hondas have won the ITC ARRC races umpteen times in a row, and they're not going to get any slower! They're the ones you need to beat.
It may make you feel better to rant and rave, but it's not going to change anything now.
This is one of the aspects of ITC racing I *don't* miss. All the BS about this part and that part not being legal. And yes, I'm fully aware that prod racing is political but on a different level.
Have fun, guys!
Mark Coffin
#14 GP VW Scirocco
Senior Member
Unfortunately we have gotten away from the original topic, and we should apologize to Jnathan for our diversion.
In regard to the legality of the VW "G" grind camshaft, the approval of this camshaft was determined in Appeal 93-60-MW, dated December 22, 1993. The SCCA Court of Appeals used the following documentation: (1) VW Parts Microfiche for the 1975 to 1980 Volkswagen (ie Rabbit or Scirocco), and (2) Letter and homologation forms from Ms. Andrea Fuchs, VW MotorSports Germany.
The final determination was that VW Camshaft 049-109-101-G is the correct camshaft for the 1975 through 1980 Volkswagen.
It is my understanding that this subject camshaft supersedes the original camshaft offered in the US VW cars from 1975 to 1980.
Given the above information, I believe the argument about the legality of the "G" grind camshaft is now complete. Regards, Ryan.
Senior Member
But he has a hydraulic lifter 1.8L So while that's good info and needs to go into the archive here...it's still only relevant to the ITC cars.
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport Volkswagen Racing Equipment
Senior Member
Bill, you are correct, and that is why I apologized to Jnathan for getting off the original topic. My reply was to "Harry" in regard to the approval of the mechanical "G" grind for the VW ITC cars.
In regard to a hydraulic "G" cam for ITB, I don't believe such a cam (if there is a hydraulic "G"?)is legal for ITB.
Senior Member
It's my understanding that the 026 G cam was the hydraulic lifter GTI/GLI cam. Since you can run any A2 1.8 8v Golf/Jetta in ITB, and due to the update/backdate rule, you're allowed to build it to full GTI/GLI specs. This includes the cam. While the 026 G cam is not an aftermarket (or any other 'special) cam, it is different than the cam in a 1.8 Golf GL, and is legal in ITB.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
Junior Member
Whether you were on the subject or off the subject, I thank everyone for their replies. It is extremely helpful to novice racers such as myself to have people who are willing to share their knowledege and experiences.
Again, Thank you.
Senior Member
as to my original post, i was assuming that that the hydraulic G cam was the european one. the 026 G cam may be legal, but to my understanding there is a euro cam for golfs thats some in ITB do Illegally run........ I was only assuming this was the cam he was talking about. Sorry for my assumption. as for the "G" solid cam, it is legal because the solid cams that came in early solid head vws are now discontinued and as from VW north america the "g" cam is till produced and is the offical replacment factory cam. this is why it is legal in ITC. I have been told by conflicting sources that the 1.8 jh solid cam is not long available either so this might be something investigate for ITB. sorry to ruffle any feathers........
Senior Member
as to my original post, i was assuming that that the hydraulic G cam was the european one. the 026 G cam may be legal, but to my understanding there is a euro cam for golfs thats some in ITB do Illegally run........ I was only assuming this was the cam he was talking about. Sorry for my assumption. as for the "G" solid cam, it is legal because the solid cams that came in early solid head vws are now discontinued and as from VW north america the "g" cam is till produced and is the offical replacment factory cam. this is why it is legal in ITC. I have been told by conflicting sources that the 1.8 jh solid cam is not long available either so this might be something investigate for ITB. sorry to ruffle any feathers........
Senior Member
>>it is different than the cam in a 1.8 Golf GL
Actually it's the same in all 10:1 G/J post '87 cars I've seen.
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport Volkswagen Racing Equipment
Junior Member
I'm not that Harry. I just love G cams
ofc
Senior Member
Originally posted by Bildon:
>>it is different than the cam in a 1.8 Golf GL
Actually it's the same in all 10:1 G/J post '87 cars I've seen.
I'm not as up on the A2's as the A1's, but I didn't think that an 'ordinary' Golf GL was 10:1. Maybe when they went to 2.0 x-flow motors, but I thought that wasn't until the A3 cars.
What I find funny about the G-grind cam being the superceding part for the early Rabbits is that it was never actually offered in any American car. I guess that since all the early Rabbits were German made, they just shipped the German cam over here.
I have heard of a G-grind analog for hydraulic heads. I believe it's referred to as a N-grind.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI
Senior Member
Bill,
All A2 Digi cars are 10:1
'87.5 thru '92
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Bill Sulouff - Bildon Motorsport Volkswagen Racing Equipment
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