Opinions on new car please

[ITAMiata]

David, I don't recall ever seeing a 240 in ITS. How well do they do vs. the BMW's?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by ITAMiata:
Matt and James, I really don't know how likely the 1.8 liter being reclassed into ITA truly is. I've seen noise about it through the year in the SCCA magazine, but it seems to get shelved each time. I was 80 pounds over minimum weight in my 1.6, so I can't imagine a 1.8 being listed more then 100 pounds over the 1.6, thus the power increase would more then offset the additional 20 pounds. However, since I really don't know if/when they will do this I think I'll probably go with another 1.6 and see if I can get it down closer to the 2205 minimum.

I think the CRB will put the 1.8 into ITA. It's 128hp stock for goodnes sake!

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[zracre]

If they put the 1.8 car in ITA it will be very competitive...a well set up 1.6 ITA car is pretty close to the front at many tracks...the extra few ponies will just bring it that much closer...

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Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[mgyip]

Originally posted by ITAMiata:
However, since I really don't know if/when they will do this I think I'll probably go with another 1.6 and see if I can get it down closer to the 2205 minimum.

Ding, ding, ding - that's the wisest approach since the 1.6 is already classed and I don't think the 1.8 has been slated for ITA quite yet. There are more than a few racers who built cars on the off-chance that SCCA would class them "competitively". When that didn't happen, they were stuck with an expensive car that was fighting for DFL.

Since your car was originally built for SM, it'll be fairly easy to find those phantom 80 lbs. This is also a good opportunity to upgrade any components on the car that were SM mandated but not necessarily ideal for IT.

[Andy Bettencourt]

While I am willing to bet the 1.8 gets to ITA, what weight it gets there at is not guaranteed...that is where the gamble is...

If I were a betting man, my money lay on these two squares:

1.6 at 2205 (can you get there?)
1.8 at 'around 2400' (give or take 20?)

But, as has been said, there is NOTHING written in stone so a 1.8 build starting today is very risky.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[ITAMiata]

Risky is why I'm going with the 1.6 liter again. I would hate to build a 1.8 and find out it never gets moved to ITA, or has to weigh 2400. At 2300 I think a 1.8 liter would be brutally fast. Having said that, once I build my new 1.6 liter, if the 1.8 is moved to ITA at 2300 no one will whine louder then me!!!

Hey Matt, did you catch any of Gregg and I flying through the air on your video? I really want to see it after hearing various people's descriptions.

[mgyip]

Originally posted by ITAMiata:
no one will whine louder then me!!!

Hey Matt, did you catch any of Gregg and I flying through the air on your video?

I don't know about that - there is a certain ITC driver that can whine louder than anyone when SCCA threatens to make his almost 30 yr old car uncompetitive with the addition of cars that aren't classified as "Antique" into ITC.

Brad's car (black/green Honda) blocked my view of your "incident". All I have on video is the two of you sliding to drivers' left on the start. Sean had the ring-side seat however since he was right behind both of you. I don't think that he was running video last weekend so you'll have to rely on his commentary which was impartial and somewhat amusing as well. "Dangerous" Dave was in the tower and got a good look at the festivities as well...

Speaking of Brad, I know he had a problem on about the 4th lap. I didn't get a chance to stop by to check on him but I hope the car is OK. I didn't get assailed by flying fluids or parts so I'd think that it's not overly terminal.

[ITABrad]

That was really a frightening looking crash.Glad to see both drivers are OK.I saw it starting to get ugly and I lifted. Sean and Larry blew by on the inside.I was looking forward to trying to get by them,AGAIN.On the restart,when I braked for three the front end darted around alot. Going down the chute the car was going left while I was turning right. The steering rack bolts came loose. Lesson- Never lube steering bolts. Did not get my racing fix fulfilled. Can't wait to get to the Glen

[Tom Donnelly]

Bill,

Besides stretching, lifting weights helps. I did alot of bench and neck exercises after my wreck. You have to start light and work back up. I tried the opposite (ego) and that just made recovery longer. If your helmet hit anything you need to toss it too. Or make a "trophy" of it. Oh, and a sawzall is great for parts removal.

Tom Donnelly
ITS 240z

[mgyip]

I was a bit "transfixed" on the back of your car at the start since I was trying to get my grapling hook aimed properly so I could have a fighting chance of staying with the "fast pack". You were certainly ring-side for the incident.

That was one fugly restart as well - the leader put the hammer down AT THE BRIDGE!! I watched my video and was upshifting into 10 b/c y'all were disappearing from my view at that point. I was a bit surprised that the starter gave us the green on the restart since we had to be going 70 mph or better when we passed start/finish!!

Glad to see that you and the car are OK - see you at the Glen!!

Note to self - provide Brad with anti-sieze and thread lube for Honda rack bolts...

[DavidM]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">David, I don't recall ever seeing a 240 in ITS. How well do they do vs. the BMW's? </font>

The DOHC 4-valve 91+ 240SXs are classed in ITS. The BMWs are quicker, but Chris did finish 3rd in the Sunday race (behind two BMW's) at Roebling this weekend. There aren't a whole lot of ITS 240s so there may be a good bit more development that can be done. Chris would be a much better source of info.

David

[charrbq]

Please don't buy a Baby Grand. I know they're cute, fast, and fun looking, but they can be a demon to drive fast. They have their "kinky appeal", but only a few areas of the country see enough of them to make a race. Mixing them with the IT cars has lead to a bunch of accidents that I've witnessed. I will say they have an incredibly strong chassis/roll cage!
Stay with they Miata. They are finally being developed in ITA to be fast. They languished in ITS too long for the good teams to develop them, it was too easy to build a Honda for ITA. SM took the interest of the builders (good money to be made) and ITA got over looked. Advantage is that now the SM guys are developing go-fast parts that transfer over to ITA and the Miatas are getting way more competitive. They've got to be a kick to drive!
Also, I'd avoid the 240SX based on my knowledge of the expense to build and operate. They are, however, very fast.
Don't count on the 1800 moving down to ITA from ITS. The comp board moves very slowly, and they have a tendency not to listen to logic. IMHO. Several of us tried to get the gen 1 Honda SI bumped down from ITA to ITB for years. It finally happened, but most of the cars are gone.
I was told by a member of the IT committee the they were afraid of moving cars around from a non competitive classing to a competitive one for fear of creating a "one car class". The example used was the 2nd gen Honda CRX. They have the idea that they will give you a place to race, but not guarantee that you'll be competitive.
The board may move the 1800 down, but how old will you be when it happens?

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Chris Harris
ITC Honda Civic

[Greg Amy]

If I were building a new IT car today, it would be a 1984 Package C Miata without ABS and with hardtop. Early 1.8L, LSD, and lots of fancy equipment that can be removed and sold on eBay for about $1000 (ask me how I know...). Figure you can get it to about 2375# with a 185# driver and it would be a perfect fit into ITA. - GA

[Andy Bettencourt]

Chris,

That's ancient history. I would expect the 1.8 move to happen for 2006. The current ITAC and CRB has a "if it's right, lets do it" mentality. That is where all the moves over the last 18mos have come from.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by GregAmy:
If I were building a new IT car today, it would be a 1984 Package C Miata without ABS and with hardtop. Early 1.8L, LSD, and lots of fancy equipment that can be removed and sold on eBay for about $1000 (ask me how I know...). Figure you can get it to about 2375# with a 185# driver and it would be a perfect fit into ITA. - GA

Can't imagine why you'd want to cut up such a rare car!

I think you're right though Greg, makes a perfect IT2... I mean ITA car!



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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[sccaITA16v]

Originally posted by mgyip:


Note to self - provide Brad with anti-sieze and thread lube for Honda rack bolts...

Ha! Matt we need to create a Brad Barnhouse lube-for-life fund: every event we will present him with a different type of lube, hopefully this will keep him off us every event!!

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www.teamdriverswanted.com

[Ron Earp]

Build a Jensen Healey.

Seriously, not one with much experience except watching other people race and working on cars, I'd build a 240sx, either S or A. They'd be fun to develop and they definitely have what it takes to run upfront in the right hands. I don't know of one that is 100% developed - that is, everything to the max, utilizing the free ECU rule for all that it is worth, etc. but well prepped ones as noted above can definitely win and run upfront. I think a 100% one could easily do that and more.

And, if you don't like that build a TR8. A JH or TR8 are the perfect SCCA cars, they are easily worked on and that is what SCCA IT is about isn't it, working on cars?

One day I am going to drive one. I have heard stories about people that drive race cars, one day I'll find out where they do that and try it out.


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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited July 14, 2005).]

[mgyip]

Originally posted by rlearp:
And, if you don't like that build a TR8. A JH or TR8 are the perfect SCCA cars, they are easily worked on and that is what SCCA IT is about isn't it, working on cars?

Since they're both British, Billy will HAVE to work on them and constantly. Perhaps he could build one of each so that he'd have a car to drive while the other one is being repaired but I wonder how the SOMs would look upon a driver that qualifies in a JH but races in a TR8.

Someone had a TR8 at VIR during one of the SARRC/MARRS events - the car was SO SLOW that even my hp-defficient brick I almost punted the car at Oak Tree. Depending on my mood, I tell myself that I'm either really good (doubtful) or that the TR8 is that bad (more likely).

[Ron Earp]

He needs one of each JUST IN CASE, one of them is working the other will need repair. We wouldn't want anyone actually driving a car, would we?

Ummm, that TR8 you mention was probably one that I wrench on but it was losing a motor when you saw it, if it was this past SAARC/MARS that just occured.

Right after you passed it, it expired on the left hand side of the track. Long story, but it is quite fast actually and in a straight line will out-drag pretty much any ITS car. However, we've been having a host of motor troubles that we've think we've got sorted now - I hope! We'll be back, with new found power!

Of course, this is all theory. I don't actually drive cars, I just work on them.

R

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
White Jensen-Healey ITS
Silver "Skull" 260Z ITS
Email: "rlearp at gt40s.com"


[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited July 14, 2005).]

[Wreckerboy]

If buys a TR-8 or a JH he'll have to dust off those "fix the car during a race weekend" skills that get so dusty when you race a Miata...