So who's going to the National Convention?

[ShelbyRacer]

Just wondering who, if anyone, is going to the SCCA National Convention next month. I'll be there, so if someone wants to meet up for a beer, or just to tell me off in person, let me know!

I'll actually be one of the presenters, with the "new" Time Trials program in Club Racing (the New Programs slot on Friday afternoon), so feel free to come heckle me...

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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[pgipson]

Our region will have at least a couple of people there. I might attend, depending on travel for work.

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Spec RX7 #11
Scottsdale AZ

[dickita15]

I should be there and would be willing to buy a round
dick patullo
ner ita rx7

[ShelbyRacer]

bump

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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[Knestis]

When my wife heard that They were spending our money on hookers for the convention, she told me I couldn't go.

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by ShelbyRacer:


I'll actually be one of the presenters, with the "new" Time Trials program in Club Racing (the New Programs slot on Friday afternoon), so feel free to come heckle me...

Any preview of the program?

[ShelbyRacer]

Well, it's very much like the old Solo 1 program, but now includes some new options, like the PDC program (Performance Driving Clinic). Really, it's more of a presentation of the retooling and the refit that we did to better fit into the club racing program. I've just spent the last few months making our rulebook into something that feels a lot like the GCR.

One of the reasons why I wondered who was going is because I was hoping to talk to some of the ITAC guys (such as yourself and George), along with some former Solo 1 guys (like Greg) to see what you all thought of the new rules and such. Even if you're not at convention, the rules should be online shortly thereafter...



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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[ShelbyRacer]

Originally posted by Knestis:
When my wife heard that They were spending our money on hookers for the convention, she told me I couldn't go.

K

K-

You have to tell her that it really would be a waste for you to have contributed and not get the benefit... That just wouldn't make financial sense



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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[lateapex911]

You know, I Do wish the SCCA had a better "bridge" (Read HPDE) between SoloII and road racing.

I know there are a lot of issues and reasons (manpower, for example) that keep us, as a club, from having a larger role.

As it is, I think we lose a lot of potential racers to marque clubs, like the PCA, where the "racing" is less stressful, (13/13 rule, and lots of previous track time) and there are 12 classes just for 911s! (OK, kidding on the last part, but you get the point)

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[ITANorm]

I'll be there from Wednesday afternoon until Sunday. I don't dare miss any of the happy hours!

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Norm - #55 ITA, '86 MR2. [email protected]

Website: home.alltel.net/jberry

[rjohnson999]

Additional dates will further stress the worker issues.

Sessions within a regional weekend will reduce already too short on track time for racing.

What's the solution?

Originally posted by lateapex911:
You know, I Do wish the SCCA had a better "bridge" (Read HPDE) between SoloII and road racing.

I know there are a lot of issues and reasons (manpower, for example) that keep us, as a club, from having a larger role.

As it is, I think we lose a lot of potential racers to marque clubs, like the PCA, where the "racing" is less stressful, (13/13 rule, and lots of previous track time) and there are 12 classes just for 911s! (OK, kidding on the last part, but you get the point)

[dickita15]

Originally posted by rjohnson999:
Additional dates will further stress the worker issues.

Sessions within a regional weekend will reduce already too short on track time for racing.

What's the solution?

I agree with jake that we need a more orderly progression without sending people off to other club and hoping they will come back. Topeka develops tools for regions to run programs. they do not mandate you use them. if the stress is to high than any region does not have to get involved.

one solo tradition that may help is people splitting there time between working and driving.

matt one of the main reasons i am going to KC is to see what you guys have come up with. this may be my next big project.
dick patullo
ner scca

[ITANorm]

Originally posted by dickita15:
one solo tradition that may help is people splitting there time between working and driving.

It may or may not be as practical in road racing, as you can well imagine. I have, however, tried for years to get satisfactory completion of mandatory work assignments (and not just F&C) part of the school / licensing curriculum.

[Geo]

While I agree that an SCCA DE series might be good to train new drivers, I would hope it not evolve like the PCA or BMWCCA programs. Some people take it entirely too seriously and create a big heirarchy as if the FIA issued DE superlicenses. PCA seems to be worse than BMWCCA.

Nothing prepares you for racing really except racing. DE can get you comfortable at speed in your car, but karting can do as much, and really, even more. Once you're comfortable in the car at speed I see zero reason not to do an SCCA school. Some folks from PCA seem to feel you have to pay some goofy dues to "graduate" to racing.

As for the worker problem, IMHO, every driver should have to volunteer one or two days per year to keep their license current. You wanna race? Learn to help make it happen. Don't want to miss a regional weekend, volunteer for a national or vice-versa.



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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[ShelbyRacer]

Originally posted by rjohnson999:
Additional dates will further stress the worker issues.

Sessions within a regional weekend will reduce already too short on track time for racing.

What's the solution?

The solution is simple (yeah right).

Get a separate base of personnel for those events.

Many clubs in our area have a Solo 2 crowd, a hillclimb crowd, and a Club Racing crowd (and even a Rally crowd, but that's another story...).

We need to tap into these Marque Club guys, not only for entries, but for workers/organizers/officials too. You may need to provide some experienced hands to get things moving, but don't try to over manage the thing with Club Racing people, or that's who will be left working. If you get new people involved and let them take some ownership of the program, they'll find people to come work them. Trust me. I've seen it happen quite a few times.

Besides, the program will be in the Club Racing department, but not require Club Racing officials' licenses. The Time Trials licensing structure is separate, both for Officials and Drivers. We're basically porting the Solo 1 program over as the head end of this thing, so we're keeping the separate structure. The idea is to differentiate the programs to give individual identity, but hopefully not over-license everything.

Jake- the program will be a stepping stone setup. L1 events will be the PDC (called HPDE and Car Handling Events by other organizations). L2 will be Solo 2 classes, but on a track, with safety equipment upgrades for everything but Stock, ST, and SP (courses are slower or artificially slowed). L3 is our Solo 1 track events (full speed- more safety required). L4 is hillclimbs and other non-track events.

The whole program is a staircase, and each individual level is a smaller, integral step, allowing a smoother transition into Club Racing.

I agree with George that nothing can teach you to race other than racing. The goal of this program is to get people used to the rules and official structure, and teach them how to DRIVE. That way, when they go for their Club Racing license, they can use the two required schools to learn how to RACE. Not everyone needs this, but it will be available, and much more mainstream now.

How many of you out there have instructed/worked/officiated at a Club Racing Drivers School? Haven't you ever wished that there was some good way to get people acquainted with SCCA and track driving before showing up at the school? Now you'll have a clear program to work with if you so choose. As Dick said, we're trying to give you more tools to work with. Whether or not you use them is up to you.

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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[This message has been edited by ShelbyRacer (edited January 03, 2005).]

[ShelbyRacer]

Originally posted by dickita15:


matt one of the main reasons i am going to KC is to see what you guys have come up with. this may be my next big project.
dick patullo
ner scca

Dick, I was going to email you privately, but I guess this board doesn't support that. I'll be more than happy to sit down and chat with you in detail about things out there, and even work with you guys to get something going if you'd like. Kathy has been a big help to me in working on things, so she probably has a pretty good feel for what we're doing already.

Honestly, it's not really much different than before. Same nice girl, but we bought her a new dress and some jewelry. Maybe it was with all the money from dues...

I'm looking forward to talking with you. I've enjoyed your contributions at the two NEDiv events I've been to, mostly because it seems we think in similar ways (scary, I know).



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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Geo:
While I agree that an SCCA DE series might be good to train new drivers, I would hope it not evolve like the PCA or BMWCCA programs. Some people take it entirely too seriously and create a big heirarchy as if the FIA issued DE superlicenses. PCA seems to be worse than BMWCCA.

Nothing prepares you for racing really except racing. DE can get you comfortable at speed in your car, but karting can do as much, and really, even more. Once you're comfortable in the car at speed I see zero reason not to do an SCCA school. Some folks from PCA seem to feel you have to pay some goofy dues to "graduate" to racing.

As for the worker problem, IMHO, every driver should have to volunteer one or two days per year to keep their license current. You wanna race? Learn to help make it happen. Don't want to miss a regional weekend, volunteer for a national or vice-versa.

George...I agree about the marque clubs, they do get pretty intense in terms of the level of experience required. However they Do provide solid instruction in many cases. Stilll... having been to the some PCA events, I have been amazed at the level of boneheadedness demonstrated by people who had been to many events. So, to some degree, I think that it's a case of water, (or drivers) seeking their own level. On the other hand, some of the faster run groups have some real talent.

I am concerned that within SCCA there is no easy progression ...you need to go outside the system to get comfortable at higher speeds. It IS possible to just autocross one year and roadrace the next. The first few laps at the first drivers school must be real eye openers!! It's not for most, that's for sure!

Years ago, the marque clubs had no real racing series, so they performed more of a service by providing folks a place to learn at speed. Now, drivers just do lapping days, then go right into marque club racing. it's easy, and they are comfortable with their club and it's "system", as well as the social circle they have built up.

I agree that we need more work requirements as drivers ...I know I try to find ways to volunteer, and so do lots of guys I know, but lots more don't. We are in a critical way at NHIS here in the NE for corner workers.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited January 03, 2005).]

[lateapex911]

Matt- From the sounds of it, it seems like an ideal stepping stone. Years ago I did a few time trials at our local track, Lime Rock, and also at Bridgehampton. Man, was I sold!

The problem was, that the clubs organizing the events provided instructors to "check me out". Imagine if you can,as a total rookie who never turned a wheel on a track before, that I take a few tentative laps at Bridgehampton in a "follow along", then a few by myself before the instructor is available. Once in the car we do and out lap, then a flying lap, and he instructs me to pull in on that lap. UH oh! He unbuckles, and I ask, "So...what are the big things I should work on first?" (Hoping I wasn't getting booted for a total lack of talent!). He replies "None...you know what you're doing...looked good to me" and with that they moved me up two groups! Now, I know that even today a good instructor could tear me to shreds! So what was up with that???

Well, first, I just don't think he was that proficient as an instructor, and they were probably understaffed.

The point is that the infra structure and manpower needs to be there, because this interim level is both a training ground as well as an end unto itself. Proper instruction and enough of it will be key to the future of SCCA ametuer road racing.

I have instructed both at driving schools, and at SCCA run "driving clinics". The clinic was pretty successful from what I could see.

From our regions point of view though, putting on more events will run into two major issues.
First, where? The local tracks are largely rented out, and for big bucks. So any event needs to be a surefire money maker. The Solo1 community is in a constant struggle to find and keep event sites that are appropriate for Solo1 speeds, not to mention Solo2 speeds.

Second, is the manpower. As it is, we (NER and the other local regions) staff lots of events, both Regional and National, as well as a number of Pro events (Speed World Challenge/NASCAR and ALMS) and the toll it takes on the worker base is tough. (The pro events we do are at the request of the local track and it's a complicated relationship). On top of that, the marque clubs, and other event organizers, tap into the SCCA worker base and pay them for their time. So we actually have competition in keeping our own trained workers!

IF we can find alternate staff, or man the corners with drivers who aren't running, or on deck, we could have a winner on our hands.

I think that it's a really important issue, and we do need a solution. But I don't think it will be an easy one.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited January 03, 2005).]

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by Geo:
Nothing prepares you for racing really except racing. DE can get you comfortable at speed in your car, but karting can do as much, and really, even more. Once you're comfortable in the car at speed I see zero reason not to do an SCCA school.

Agreed completely! I spent 6 weekends doing N*S* HPE and sorting out the race car, then went through the SCCA school. I wouldn't have traded that track time on those weekends for anything. Especially having been able to run my car, so I knew what it was like 30 minutes into a session when the brakes were soft, tires greasy, etc.

Marcus

[apexingsupra]

Actually SCCA now does have that "bridge", the HPCCC (High Performance Car Control Clinics). I don't care for the title but it is Driver's Education program that has been in existence for the last two years and my region, Alabama, has been putting on HPCCCs the last two years. The program needs to be tweaked some and I have put my two cents in on that and thankfully some changes have been made. It needs to run in a event chair friendly and entrant friendly format and under rules similar to PCA and BMWCCA which have been doing this for a long time without major issues. It needs to be promoted more heavily and I have discussed this with National more than once. They seem to be listening in that next to Solo 2, HPCCCs should be the next biggest participant level in SCCA activities which I think will only improve the club racing scene. I think NASA's idea of running HPDEs and races on the same weekend is a pretty good idea. The DE folks get to mingle with the racers and I bet more bit off on the racing after watching it. For what it is worth the Alabama region is combining Solo 2 and HPCCC in a two day format at TGPR twice this year. So that will whet the appetite of Solo 2 people to try DEs. I think it is a good thing.

Oh yeah. I will be at National Convention too.

Barry H.
Al. Reg. RE.

Originally posted by lateapex911:
You know, I Do wish the SCCA had a better "bridge" (Read HPDE) between SoloII and road racing.

I know there are a lot of issues and reasons (manpower, for example) that keep us, as a club, from having a larger role.

As it is, I think we lose a lot of potential racers to marque clubs, like the PCA, where the "racing" is less stressful, (13/13 rule, and lots of previous track time) and there are 12 classes just for 911s! (OK, kidding on the last part, but you get the point)