240sx vs 300zx

[Wayne]

My son has expressed interest in these cars for his first car. He has $1000 to buy his first car. Dad "might" be persuaded to loan him an additional $1000.

What can you tell me about these cars? What are the main differences between the 240 and 300? Are parts hard to find for these things? Expensive? How about leg room, my 14 year old son is 6' 4" now and shows no sign of stopping.

I understand at this price point some work will likely be needed. He will be doing all his own work, using my tools, shop, hoist etc.

I suspect insurance will be expensive for a young driver (on my policy) since it's probably classified as a "sports car"?

I've only found a couple locally. 89 240sx, 5 speed, second owner, 134k, runs great, $2500 obo.

And this one:
http://classifieds.nwsource.com/auto/detai....cfm?id=4763454

And a 84 300zx, 86K, AT (yuck), $2075

Wayne

[MMiskoe]

If the '84 300zx does not have T-tops it is a fairly desirable car, there were only 10,000 made w/o t-tops. The automatic can be swapped for a manual, read on www.z31.com for how to do it. Parts for the 300 are not that hard to come by as a lot of the cars are going out to pasture, a parts car can be had for nearly nothing. Besides rust they are pretty rugged. Just change the timing belt & follow the OEM red line. Look hard at the body for rust or accident damage. They are however very heavy.

Don't know much about the 240 except a friend who races one and has been through 2 motors in as many years.

[racer_tim]

I would think that the insurance would be cheaper on a 240sx than a 300zx.

That's also something I would check before purchasing.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[grayracer]

Wayne, I assume you're talking about a daily driver car...not a race car. I owned a non-T-top 84 300zx (non turbo) from 84-89. Absolutely reliable car...no trouble whatsoever in 150K miles. decent gas mileage...fairly heavy and safe. I would avoid the turbo as it can be a big ticket item if it goes out.

240 sx is probably out of his (your) price range. I KNOW a decent 240z will be.

That being said...I have a friend who has one he's owned since new sitting in his garage. He's made some noise about needing the space. It's a white '86 (I think) non turbo T-top model that's been well taken care of...I've told him it's worth 1500-2000 max but I haven't seen it in a while.

Where are you located?

[Wayne]

Originally posted by grayracer:
Wayne, I assume you're talking about a daily driver car...not a race car. Where are you located?

Yup, daily driver. Prefer manual trans if possible. We are in Seattle WA.

Wayne

[grayracer]

Well I'm in the deep south...too far to pick up a 1500$ car.

If I recall from my Nissan days there were several iterations of the 240SX and I'm not really that familiar with them.

As to the 300zx, you're obviously talking about the 1984-1989 models in the $2k or below price range. A decent and serviceable model can be found well within your price range.

These came with two slightly different body styles...the 84-85's were slightly more angular and the 86 and later models had a slightly more rounded nose and subtle fender flares. Alsmost all had t-tops which are fairly well sealing. Additonally this generation of 300zx's came in either regular or 2+2 models (which have cursory back seats suitable for double amputees at best ). The 2+2 has about a 10" longer wheel base and more flat roofline when compared to the coupe (2 seat version). Finally, there were both normally aspirated versions (160 hp) and turbos (200 hp)for all these year models..

All that being said, for a kid's car I'd recommend a non-turbo (less stuff to break) and stay away from those in later years with digital dashes which seemed to have some electrical gremlins. The manual transmissions and the V6 motors were virtually indestructible if properly maintained. Even if he blows and engine there were a ton of these motors in the Maximas of that era that can be bought in a salvage yard cheap.

If you drive one and it has a "clunk" in the rear end when taking off, it could be a half shaft but more likely is a sloppy differential bushing or front mount...inexpensive and simple to repairs. To diagnose this get down and watch the diff while someone takes off from a standing start and you will see the diff rotate fore/aft suddenly when placed under load. I offer this because a friend convinced a seller high dollar rear end repairs might be in order...and the guy knocked $500 off the sale price...for what amounted to a $30 self repair.

Non-high performance struts are cheap as are tie rod ends and steering rack bushings which go a long way to restore a (relatively) crisp feel to the front supension.

Clutch and pressure plate can be had for under $100 at Autozone or the like and is an easy DIY repair. For that matter most all maintenance parts (brake pads/rotors/alternators, etc) can be picked up from local autoparts stores. Exception would be fuel injection/flow meter and some electrical components.

As far as insurance you may find the 2+2 model is classified as a "family" car since it does technically have a back seat.

Sorry to be so long winded.

Oh yeah...it will accomodate tall drivers as well as anything short of a full sized truck.

[This message has been edited by grayracer (edited October 12, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by grayracer (edited October 12, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by grayracer (edited October 12, 2004).]

[Roman]

Hey, I actually registered here just to respond. I sold my 300ZX to buy a trailer for my SpecMiata 3 years ago. I owned the car for 16 years and learned a few things about them.

First off, the Auto to manual swap is not too bad - I did that very thing on my car. Besides the trans, I seem to recall it needed a new driveshaft, but the diff was the same. If the car in question is a turbo, then make sure to get a turbo trans (it's the Borg Warner T-5, IIRC.)

If you go the turbo route, avoid the 1984 models. In either '85 or '86 Nissan added a water-cooled turbo bearing jacket which really, REALLY prolonged the life of the turbo. When I sold mine, it had 150K miles on the origional turbo. Didn't use a drop of oil.

As was mentioned before, it really is a heavy car, but very durable. A recall on the fuel injectors came out about 4 or 5 years ago. If you buy a 300, you might take it in to the dealer and see if the recall has been done. Many haven't, as cars these old don't always get back to the dealer. The recall gets you new injectors, fuel rail, and some other goodies at no cost to you.

Check for rust in the spare tire well. Oh, and avoid the digital dash like the plague. Replacemtns are hideously expensive. Cheaper to buy a parts car.

A Special Edition came out in 1998 - all were white turbo cars. They came with a little lower (higher numerical) gearing, about 5 more hp, better brakes. These may be a little above your price point, but not by much.

The 1986 models were a little unique in that they had the factory side skirts and fender flares. Some of the 1984 Anniversary Edition models had these as well, but the flares were just stuck on to the car instead of blended into the rest of the body.

Great cars. Rarely had any trouble. I wish I still had mine.

Roman

[Scooter]

Originally posted by Wayne:
What are the main differences between the 240 and 300? Are parts hard to find for these things? Expensive? How about leg room, my 14 year old son is 6' 4" now and shows no sign of stopping.

I've only found a couple locally. 89 240sx, 5 speed, second owner, 134k, runs great, $2500 obo.

The 240sx has huge aftermarket support and is very popular with the kids these days. I used to own a '90, and it was a good handling, nice driving, comfortable car. There is NO backseat room, of course. The 16 valve car is better and more powerful than the 12 valver. There are some cool engine swaps for these things.

I'm 6'1" and I fit in it fine. But one sitting will let you know where you're in that dept.

They're also very reliable. Nice looking, to boot.

The 300zx is a japanese Mustang II.

[Wayne]

Thanks guys. Does the 240sx have the digital dash as well?

Wayne

[Tristan Smith]

The 240sx came with a HUD (head's up display)on some models that displayed the speed on the front windshield, but no, the gauges were all analog. There is pretty good aftermarket support for both models. The 240sx is a great handling car. The problem is that with the drifting craze, decent 240sxs (a favored model) are being snatched up by the kids and good used examples are starting to get expensive. Also with the 240sx, there are a variety of engine swaps that can be done (although not all are legal, so check on your state's smog codes).

------------------
Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56

[This message has been edited by Tristan Smith (edited October 16, 2004).]

[Prince Makaha]

The 240sx, as the result of the drifting craze, is way overpriced currently.

These cars are popular with the "drifters" because they have terrible rear traction in stock form (even worse than the Z)........especially for novice drivers.

For the Z car, best bet is a 1987-1989 with analog dash. Don't bother looking for a slicktop because they are rare.

I'm six five and have gotten a few deep bruises on my upper leg when entering the 240sx and hitting the e.brake lever.........no problems with the Z at all.

One thing I have noticed about the SX versus the ZX crowd is that the SX crowd seems to throw silly money at them while the Z guys make an effort to be economical about improving performance but I do have some friends running 880cc injectors and the huge HP they can support.

If the car has been kept up and maintained, mileage is not much of an issue as my current 1987 300zx has 280k on the original engine and runs great.......but I had to replace the trans and diff mount as well as timing belt, tensioner, coolant tube to rad hose, front engine seals, and a couple of power steering lines.

Florida is a good place to get one and I would check the classifieds at z31.com as most there aren't trying to get much more than they would pay for one.

One more thing to consider is why he is showing interest in cars famous for oversteer as a novice will eventually get into trailing throttle oversteer on a decreasing radius turn with predictable consequences.



[This message has been edited by Prince Makaha (edited October 17, 2004).]