Philosophical Issue - Do we let newbies screw up?

[Geo]

Originally posted by rlearp:
Owwwwwww! I can already feel budgetary rescritions on the Bureau of Transportation and Competition from the Minster of Domestic affairs! '

You forgot:

Loss of money on sale of M3 you stupidily bought not forseeing racing and tow vechicle in your future - $3000

Purchase of tow car - $2000-$40000

Purchase of trailer - $1000-3000

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited September 02, 2004).]

But you know what? I give you full marks! I'm on Bimmerforums and sometimes E46Fanatics and I see people saying they can't afford to race, yet they buy wheels that cost more than I've seen built IT cars with a current log book go for.

Good for you for selling the M3 to go racing. Anybody with an M3 can afford to go racing. Good for you for going racing!


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Knestis]

My example is from the mid-80s. It was a Rabbit with a bolt in Autopower, non-threaded struts, a header and exhaust, rubber bushings all around, a pretty good seat and harness, and a lot of pretty gauges. It was a B car then and not a particularly competitive one.

Take a road car, add a bolt-in cage, the required safety gear and there you go. Probably can go racing for $1,500 or less (assuming you already have the car).

Now, see - I worry about this kind of statement. I think it's terribly misleading because the guy/gal with no experience won't know that there's more to the story than this. It's perpetuating a myth.

"Honey - I can go racing for $1500. I already have the Hyundai, so I don't have to buy a new car."

First, you have to qualify "already have the car" to mean, "already have a care that (a) isn't an automatic, ( isn't a piece of crap with rusted out floors and worn out pieces, © is listed in the ITCS, and (d) has some kind of parts supply available.

Your model assumes a bolt-in rollcage. Not all cars have them available. It presumes that all of the systems are in sufficient condition to be out on the race track. It doesn't take into consideration all of the driver's gear required. Etc., etc., etc.

How about this - I'm going to start a new thread with a challenge...

K

[itracer]

Originally posted by Knestis:
First, you have to qualify "already have the car" to mean, "already have a care that (a) isn't an automatic, ( isn't a piece of crap with rusted out floors and worn out pieces, © is listed in the ITCS, and (d) has some kind of parts supply available.
K

Don't forget (e) if you can't push it off a cliff and walk away (financially and sentimentally), you should not be racing it.

~Jason
Haven't pushed one off yet, but I've come really close.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Now, see - I worry about this kind of statement. I think it's terribly misleading because the guy/gal with no experience won't know that there's more to the story than this. It's perpetuating a myth.

Oh come on Kirk.

Originally posted by Knestis:
"Honey - I can go racing for $1500. I already have the Hyundai, so I don't have to buy a new car."

First, you have to qualify "already have the car" to mean, "already have a care that (a) isn't an automatic, ( isn't a piece of crap with rusted out floors and worn out pieces, © is listed in the ITCS, and (d) has some kind of parts supply available.

Well yes, a, b, and c are already assumed of course. Would anybody here tell someone you can race any ol' car? Mein Gott. I don't even know how to respond to this. If someone cannot take care of finding out those things, how can we prevent that?

As for d, that's another one that makes me shake my head. Please define parts supply. If you mean can I find a new washer bottle or do you mean developmental parts?

Originally posted by Knestis:
Your model assumes a bolt-in rollcage. Not all cars have them available.

I'll give you that, but I would assume anybody planning on a bolt-in cage would do their research before building an IT car.

Originally posted by Knestis:
It presumes that all of the systems are in sufficient condition to be out on the race track.

Well duh. I mean, just how ludicrous are you going to make this argument?

Originally posted by Knestis:
It doesn't take into consideration all of the driver's gear required. Etc., etc., etc.

That's a whole other issue. Another one that can have a wide range of costs.

Kirk, I just don't see where you're going with this. How do you prevent someone from being a total dumbass? Is that your question? If so, I have to restate your question, how do we prevent someone from being a total dumbass? I don't think you or I or anybody can.

If someone is not even able to find out if their car is elligible for competition, I don't think there is anything we can do to help them.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Wayne]

Originally posted by Geo:
But you know what? I give you full marks! I'm on Bimmerforums and sometimes E46Fanatics and I see people saying they can't afford to race, yet they buy wheels that cost more than I've seen built IT cars with a current log book go for.

Yup, in many cases it's simply a matter of priorities. I have this friend who likes to go to the track with me (might as well, as he has no money to do anything else on the weekends). This guy has a much higher net income then I do, but a much lower net worth. He lives in a much nicer house then I do, drives a very expensive, nice street car (as does his wife), and is in debt up to his eyeballs. He is extended so badly that he can't even finish furnishing his home.

He is constantly whining about how I "get to go racing", and the closest thing he gets to motorsports is passing someone on the freeway in his expensive car. He also whines that I have a very nice detached shop, while all he has is a two car garage full of "stuff".

I've explained to him the concepts of debt, net income, net worth etc. He understands it, but is stuck in the cycle of constantly buying up - car, house etc. and refuses to try and break this cycle.

We have almost this same discussion every race weekend. He tells me that his wife would "not be happy" living in an older neighborhood, or driving a 1996 car (what my wife drives). She wants this, she wants that.

My advice is always the same:
A. Grow some balls (don't let your wife totally run your life).
B. Maybe you married the wrong person...

And that my friend, is why I'm driving race cars on the weekends, and you are driving the Murray riding lawn-mower around your postage sized front lawn. It's sometimes just a matter of priorities... how bad do you want it?

Wayne

[Geo]

Originally posted by Wayne:
[BIt's sometimes just a matter of priorities... how bad do you want it?[/B]

Indeed!

I've seen people without two nickels to rub together put together a kart racing program week after week while someone driving a new M3 say he can't get this or that he needs to get his kart running reliably.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com