Which Tire Manufacturer Cares About You?

[Catch22]

"I'm at a point now that I don't need to win at any cost to my time and household budget."

I don't either. I carefully budget the amount of weekends I do each year to assure that I can reasonably afford what I do. I'm a racer that feels like if I can't be competitive, I won't even load the car and go. So I only do what the budget allows me to do competitively.

"I just don't believe a $600- set of one race weekend tires have any place in IT racing."

I don't either. I know some of you guys disagree, but I don't see a significant falloff on the Hoosiers until about heat cycle number 8. So thats 4 good qualify/race out of each set of tires. I stretch it to at least 2 more after that.

"but what would you do when your stiff competition showed up on new rubber for every race? You only use the Hoosiers because you need to, to be competitive. You'd also have to (with the same goals) if everyone else showed up on new rubber every time too.

Excellent point. And you're correct, there are racers out there who do this. Mostly in ITS and SM from what I've seen.
This is a big reason I race in ITC. I used to have an Integra GSR and the costs to be competitive in it were just too high. I COULD afford it, I just didn't want to.
Nobody shows up for every race with new tires in ITC. Theres no data acquisition, no $3000 dampers, and no motors that are freshened every 2 to 3 weekends. Folks show up with new rubber for the ARRC, and thats about it.

Scott, who bought 8 new Hoosiers last spring and is still competitively racing on them (but they are admittedly about dead).

[Catch22]

My information on the SM tire was incorrect.

From Rodney Perry at Appalachian Tire (and Rodney is all-knowing when it comes to Hoosiers, and race tires in general really)...
The SM Hoosier is the same tire as the rest of the 04 Hoosiers, just at a reduced cost. All other information that has been widely spread by multiple groups about it being a different compound is incorrect.
It was simply an effort by Hoosier to get into the SM market, which seems to have failed in many regions.

As for the SM drivers from the ARRC saying the SM Hoosier was only slightly faster than the Toyo... I can now only assume that there was some sand bagging going on to try to get it approved. Either that or the Toyo does actually work as well as the Hoosier on a SM chassis. On an ITA CRX (for example), the Hoosier 04 appears to be significantly faster than both the 03 Hoosier and the Toyo.

I dunno... All I know is if I ran 205/50/15 tires I'd be stockpiling these at $142 each.

[BMW RACER]

Just for the sake of argument (debate). Hoosier does make a very good DOT tire but I do think calling it a street tire is stretching the truth just a wee bit. Maybe we should just go to real race tires? What do you think?

[gran racing]

Catch22,
About the life span of the Hoosier tires...

You also have to take into consideration all types of cars. On other posts you have stated how helpful it is to race an ITC well set-up race car. The life of tires, brake pads, rotors, ect. And I do think it is very smart to run a car that can do this. But many other cars a more rough on tires so we can't get that type of life out of Hoosiers. And of course it is our own fault for choosing that particular car.

I am very anxious to continue hearing how the new Hoosier tire does. Assuming it is everything that I've heard, people that ran Kumos for sake of longevity will have to think twice about their tire selection.

------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[Hotshoe]

Hoosier / Appalachian Tire Are the best. They had a new set of the 13" 04s come in and brought them to the track and made a special effort to tell me they had them.

I installed a set and all I can say is WOW. I REALLY MEAN WOW. What a tire. I pushed them as hard as I could and they held up ( I finished the race 4th overall with a 1st Gen RX7 ). Traction was better than the old Hoosier, and wear, The jury is still out but I will let you know, They still looked pretty good considering how hard Roebling Road is on tires.

If you like the old Hoosier then you will Love the new 04. If you have not tried a Hoosier I suggest you try the 04 at least once... They are that good..

It takes a lot to make a big impression on me and Hoosier has definitely done their homework on this tire and having it available for us to use this season.

My thanks to Hoosier / Appalachian Tire

Rick Thompson # 99 IT7

im an idiot, I bought a new set of hoosiers last sept($750), blew the motor with 2 laps on them and them let them sit on the car every since, probly hard as a rock.

[joeg]

Originally posted by 7'sRracing:
im an idiot, I bought a new set of hoosiers last sept($750), blew the motor with 2 laps on them and them let them sit on the car every since, probly hard as a rock.

Only if you left it outside exposed to bright sun all the time.

Otherwise, they'll still work fine!

[apr67]

Originally posted by Catch22:


As for the SM drivers from the ARRC saying the SM Hoosier was only slightly faster than the Toyo...

Road Atlanta is not what I would call a handling track. It is possible that the Hoosiers extra grip in the corners was offset by its extra drag on the straights. The overall times were down (1.46.6 compared to a 1.46.3 in 2002), so something else may have contributed.

Time will tell.

[oanglade]

SM ran at the 2003 ARRC under the 2004 SCCA rules that include weight increases of 45 pounds for the 1.6 cars.

------------------
Ony Anglade
ITA Miata
Sugar Hill, GA

[spnkzss]

I hate to spread rumors, but my understanding about the new Kumho V710, is that they released them without getting DOT approved.

I don't know about you, but I consider that to be the dumbest thing any tire manufacturer could do for our sport.

In theory, if this rumor is true, everyone that was running them would technically be breaking the GCR rules.

Again this is rumor and do not have any hard fact, but this is a good reason SCCA banned them.

Food for thought.

[Knestis]

This is one of those posts with an actual disclaimer that "I am not an expert but..."

It's my understanding that tire companies self-certify DOT compliance - a big part of which is that they follow sizing and labeling conventions.

There is no such thing - again, to my knowledge - of a DOT physical testing approval "process," actually applied by DOT, with benchmarks against which tires must match.

This is also NOT the first - or 2nd or 3rd - time that a newly-introduced tire has had problems on the race track. The first instance that I saw was in the mid-'80s when IMSA's Renault Cup went from an S-rated Goodyear Eagle (175/70-13, point of historical interest) to the H-rated version. The new ones overheated and chunked, even when shaved to 2/32nds.

K

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...released them without getting DOT approved...</font>

If that were true, it would be unfortunate, and obviously directly contrary to the regulations.

However, let's face it: the DOT approval requirement is a sham anyway. Requiring DOT approval is a dinosaur rule dating back to "the old days" of Showroom Stock, when the original intention was for cars to run actual STREET tires bought form the local tire store, instead of pure racing tires (slicks). Who in the hell is gonna buy Hoosier R3S04 or VictorRacer tires to put on their Hyundai Sonata? These aren't street tires in any sense of the word, and the Department of Transportation likely has nothing at all to say about race cars.

In the early 80's, tire manufactures saw a loophole the size of a Mack truck and drove right on through it. I don't remember who developed an "R compound" tire first, but I think it may have gotten started when Yokohama (A008) and Pirelli (P3s?) built sticky compound tires for the exotic car market. We started running those in autocross in the early-80s and I'm almost certain that BFG was the first manufacturer to build DOT-approved race-specific tires (Comp TA-R?). We shaved 'em down to 3 or 4/32 and became instantly faster.

These days we don't even pretend that they could be used on the street by molding them full tread and shaving them; we now buy them molded directly to race tread depth (I think Goodyear was the first to do that with the GS-CS in '92? What a s**tstorm that caused at the '92 Runoffs!) I'd bet these current tires are really and truly racing radial tires with a little groove or two in them for show.

So, while (if) Kumho did a Very Bad Thing to the letter of the rules by not obtaining DOT approval, let's not ring our hands in horror and claim they did anything that, frankly, everyone else is doing in reality...

Greg

[Prince Makaha]

First was the Yokohama A001-r which predates the A008 by a bit.

[Hotshoe]

I have been trying a set of the new Hoosiers. Well the verdict is in as far as my opinion.

Results: 9 heat cycles so far
........ 4 races
........ 5 qualifying

The tires still have 1/4 tread left, I could get one more race out of them but I am going to use them for qualifying only just to see how many more heat cycles they will take.

Compared to the old Hoosier .... Excellent ... beats them hands down. Not including when the tire is new (first heat cycle) the speed drops off about .3 per heat cycle after the first four cycles.

For the money and the drivability I will continue to use the 04 Hoosier. Five very competitive races out of a set of tires is pretty good in my book.

Rick Thompson #99 IT7