IT National Issues Survey

[RSTPerformance]

My Question: What are participation rates in Nationals vs. Regionals and how many more participants would we actually have if we combined the two.

The reasons behind my question:

I agree that we should do away with national/ regional races. Instead I think that there should be a series much like the NAARC in our regioanl series here in the NE that qualifies you for the valvoline runnoffs. The only problem I see is that in some of the classes/ groups we would be over classified. If this is the case then we need to race to qualify and those that don't qualify for the race get there money back so there is no loss in trying to qualify (Much liek circle track). This will definetly make the classes more competitive and increase numbers. And if we have all fully subscribed races then the "event" surely made money so there isn't really a loss by returning some of the entry if they do not qualify to race. I also think that if we did do this keeping only certain race weekends eligable as points to get to the valvoline runnoffs we would keep the feilds lower on those other weekends so that the regional dates will still effectively be the same. In the end we just increase participation and we gain race dates as well!

Stephen

[Knestis]

Originally posted by Geo:
How about agenda?

Geez - can't a guy be curious? Trust me guys - if I had an agenda on these issues, you would have heard about it. When have I ever NOT spoken up if I believed that something needed to be changed?

So here goes: This entire organization operates on the assumption that every member is going to fight selfishly for every personal advantage he or she can manage. This is a fundamental manifestation of "member-driven organization" and it is massively counterproductive.

The classification process expects that if I want to race a 1954 NSU Prinz, I'll request it. That there might be others out there with other year Prinzs who might want to play is never a consideration: The Comp Board worries only about a "yes" or "no" to my narrow little interest.

Similarly, I ask questions about what seem to be timely issues and people suggest that I have a secret agenda. And it didn't just happen here. Sheesh.

K

EDIT - Re: Andy's question, it is a very different thing to have 20 ITX drivers in a region, each of whom is entering six regionals a year; than it is to have 20-car fields every weekend made up of 40 different drivers, each of whom runs 3 races per season. The entries-per-event number would be identical but the difference suggests an different state of health and set of needs.

[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited March 29, 2004).]

[ddewhurst]

Dam, I'll neeed to talk with Bennett & see if he secretly ordered those things painted purple.

Darin, this business that the BoD mandated the Regions to submit Regional results sometime late last season has been on the screen for the past couple years. If it happened there would be factual info available if they used the info. Then if they would mandate the same for National results we would know how many active cars exist in the U.S.

Per Andy's question: "What is the difference between an active car and an entry" If I entered & showed up at the track with my car & raced at 12 events during year 2003 I would call that an active car. If the car sat in the garage throughout year 2003 I would not call that an active car. If during year 2003 I entered 12 events & raced at each that would show up on the SCCA charts as 12 entries. When you look at the SCCA charts & see 12 entries or 700 entries how do you know how many cars are active per my description ? How do you look at the 700 entries & determine how many active cars there are in the U.S. ?

Always curious
David

[ITSRX7]

David,

By your definition, active cars would be included in average car counts. Cars that COULD run but don't are neither active nor included in car counts.

Kirk's explanation is accurate - but it is only a data point heading toward a conclusion. I submit that if you run 3 races a year, your limited not by interest, but by funds or some other factor.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Per Andy's question: "What is the difference between an active car and an entry" If I entered & showed up at the track with my car & raced at 12 events during year 2003 I would call that an active car. If the car sat in the garage throughout year 2003 I would not call that an active car. If during year 2003 I entered 12 events & raced at each that would show up on the SCCA charts as 12 entries. When you look at the SCCA charts & see 12 entries or 700 entries how do you know how many cars are active per my description ? How do you look at the 700 entries & determine how many active cars there are in the U.S. ?

Always curious
David

I might be missing something but this seems pretty easy to me. Why couldn't we just get together all the final season points from each region or "series" and then with that information you will be able to see how many different drivers and how many different cars participated in the year. I would be willing to put together a spread sheet for everyone if someone can list all the series that we have in the US. I'm sure I will be able to find all the results somehow I would just need a list af all the different regions we have in SCCA. It seems to me that this type of info is one of the reasons SCCA would have us keep points all year long.

Stephen

[ddewhurst]

How come I am always sorry I start a topic off someones thread that goes no where. There is no question that with the Regions forwarding the info to Topeka for Regional & Nationals the SCCA could have any race car data they desired.

The point is the last time I questioned Topeka about this subject they did not know the information for National & or Regional cars.

My whole point is the same/similar to some other peoples point. Which classes pay the bills, which classes/cars enter more events. As an example who pays more money per year at Regional/National combined (Leaving out the Runoffs/ARRC) Production or IT ? (I understand IT is not National)

IMHJ this is not a question that one should be required to dig around for an answer. A couple clicks on the key board should provide an answer.

I quit
David

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:


IMHJ this is not a question that one should be required to dig around for an answer. A couple clicks on the key board should provide an answer.

I quit
David

Thanks David that's what I thought.

Does anyone know anyone in Topeka that could get the total numbers. I am just curious about IT to see what types total number and how many differnt types of cars run in It. I Just think it would be neat information to total up and see. I think it would also be neat to see how it has changed over time.

Stephen

[Marianne]

As a pointskeeper for NEDIV national races I can understand the confusion in this discussion. The information sent to Topeka is only related to number of entries at a particular race. For instance, in NEDIV we run 8 nationals in a year. For each race I count how many cars started in each particular class. As many of you have pointed out,
each national could have 10 drivers but are they the same 10 drivers at each event? That is not sent to Topeka – just the fact that it is 10 drivers. Now, I have the information available for NEDIV drivers (not drivers who are from SEDIV but came to visit a NEDIV track) on how many races each driver ran in a particular class for any race in a given year – this includes races the driver race down in SEDIV etc.. This is raw information so someone would need to do the calculations but it is available. The same holds true for the NARRC series in NEDIV. It just takes time to get the information you are looking for. I imagine any series that has detailed standing posted could be used to get the information you looking for. Cars that are shared would count as 2 or more cars and I don’t know of a way of tracking that. It isn’t hard to do just time consuming…

Marianne

[planet6racing]

David:

Is that (what Marianne posted) the information you were driving for? Your post made little sense to me (and I'm sure others) hence the confusion on being able to answer your question...

It would be interesting to find out how many are entering as well as how many different people are entering.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
...IMHJ this is not a question that one should be required to dig around for an answer. A couple clicks on the key board should provide an answer.

I quit

David

Hang in there David, I sense an answer to the problem may be in the offing.

Apparently Topeka doesn't record data for individual entries, at least at the regional level. However, if the car and the driver for each race were passed on to Topeka (with results?), it would be relatively straightforward to cross reference this with membership data.

One would think Topeka would find this valuable for marketing/member service purposes alone. Making the information publicly available may be another matter.

I expect it will happen--in time.

Gregg

[Edit: spellign is good]

[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited March 29, 2004).]

[ddewhurst]

Ya know Bill@planet6racing it's like I said in my previous post. I quit................

There are X number of IT cars that were active (raced) during year 2003.

Screw the entries at an event because the entries do not tell a person nothing to do with the number of active IT/Production cars in the U.S.

Click, click, click do ya get the picture ?

Bill Miller, if your e-mail address is [email protected] you are sending a virus. I received an e-mail this a.m. that I didn't open & deleated because of a virus detected.

[dickita15]

david
it should be possible to track drivers and how active they are but not cars. which car i drive is not anywhere in the results. i have three ita rx7' in my garage with logbooks but you can not tell from the info gathered by the regions which car i might have raced. the only place this is recorded in in the vehicle logbook. drivers however are recorded by member number in the results. i can tell you for the 15 or so NARRC races who entered what race. while we are sending results to topeka i do not know if there is actually a data base developed for these yet. regions send these in in different formats so everthing would probaly have to be hand entered.

it would be interesting data but i am not sure it is worth the cost of developing it
dick

[Knestis]

149 responses so far. If you know of people out there who are not contributors to this board, let them know about the survey.

K

BTW - most of the current viruses spoof the
"from" field by swiping from the email address book on the infected computer. If you get an infected mail that appears to be from Bill M. - or anyone else - you got it from someone who has sent Bill a message, not actually from him.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Geez - can't a guy be curious? Trust me guys - if I had an agenda on these issues, you would have heard about it. When have I ever NOT spoken up if I believed that something needed to be changed?

Gee Kirk, what's wrong? You've made a lot of assumptions in the past about the agenda of others. In fact, you do in this very message. I'm sure you have an agenda. I'm not assuming it's nefarious.

Originally posted by Knestis:
So here goes: This entire organization operates on the assumption that every member is going to fight selfishly for every personal advantage he or she can manage. This is a fundamental manifestation of "member-driven organization" and it is massively counterproductive.

I think you are making major assumptions. Don't speak for me, and don't speak for the ITAC. For that matter, don't speak for other members.

But even if it were true. What do you suggest? Socialized motorsports?

Originally posted by Knestis:
Similarly, I ask questions about what seem to be timely issues and people suggest that I have a secret agenda.

Please show me where I suggested you have a secret agenda. I just asked what your agenda was. Pretty straight-forward.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Knestis]

I can honestly say that I have NO agenda in this matter. Seriously. It is possible. I have opinions on the subject but as far as the purpose of this inquiry? Nada.

K

[Geo]

Originally posted by Knestis:
I can honestly say that I have NO agenda in this matter. Seriously. It is possible. I have opinions on the subject but as far as the purpose of this inquiry? Nada.

K

Okie dokie. Just askin'.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[paulydee]

I took the survey and I too would have like a "not sure" kind of choice. I also wanted to second what Jake said about getting rid of the national/regional distinction.

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Paul D'Angelo
73 ITS CENDIV
Indy Region
http://www.iridiumracing.com

[Knestis]

Response rate has slowed so I thought I give you an interim report on submissions to date (with 176 responses)...

76% Strongly Agree or Agree that the “Regional only” rule in the ITCS puts the Improved Touring classes in a position of lower status than National classes

91% Strongly Agree or Agree that the Improved Touring classes are currently treated with respect IN THEIR REGION, in terms of track time, scheduling, and other issues

58% Strongly Agree or Agree that the Improved Touring classes are currently treated with respect BY THE SCCA NATIONAL OFFICE, in terms of rules enforcement and other issues

67% Strongly Agree or Agree that owners of Improved Touring cars should be able to run them somewhere in the existing National Club Racing class structure

76% Strongly Agree or Agree that they would personally run National events if they were allowed to do so within the existing Club Racing class structure

64% Strongly Agree or Agree that the Improved Touring classes should be considered for National status under the existing participation requirements

81% Strongly Agree or Agree that they would personally run National events if their Improved Touring class achieved National status

82% Strongly Agree or Agree that the Improved Touring classes should have a “RunOffs” style national championship event, organized by the SCCA national office

76% Strongly Agree or Agree that they would personally work toward earning points to qualify for an Improved Touring national championship event

Preference for the location of an IT national championship event is weighted toward the central and eastern US - probably reflecting the geographic distribution of repondents.

If you haven't already participated, think about doing so. If you know of IT people who have not, you might encourage them to fill it out as well.

K

[zracer22]

This survey is the equivelant of a survey of hungry people about food. The results would be much different if taken by all IT racers, including those that would rather spend time with their kids than on line filling out surveys. Let's face it, 90% of the racers aren't in the top 10% of the field, and would have no interest in higher entry fees, less track time and even a lesser chance of a good finish. The only way to get real results would be to hand out the the survey at registration, and require it to be completed and returned to a grid worker on false grid befor going on track.

[Phat-S]

CC: honda-tech.com

Kirk, couple o' thoughts:

You can stop counting and close your poll, anything gathered after #176 is invalid since you have announced results.

I am not a statistician, I am a software developer that works with statistical data on pretty much a daily basis. We can rely on this data within a certain degree of signal to noise because the users are employees of the client. We could not open up this to the greater internet community and give that dataset back to the company/client with any accuracy because the users in that case are not guaranteed to be in their target group (employees). We don't really care how a 14 year old that got tired of surfing for porn responds to various retirement benefit options for a company that has noone under the age of 25 working.

This poll, whatever its intent, has no meaning aside from this is a valid dataset (up to #176) that represents survey responses to an open survey group pertaining to a non-open survey subject. Basically, there is no assurance that any one respondent aside from you (who said he was the first to take it) are even SCCA members. I think any accurate survey of this type - if it is to be ever posted/used/reported outside of your "I simply want to know" needs to have some filter criteria associated with it such that the dataset can be weighted and validated. I would be happy to help if you want, but would be a prick about the need for registration (profile) data and means of weighing responses based on profile criteria.

"Solo II for 2 years, not necessarily with the SCCA, currently in college, don't have the means to build a car, hope to by 2005 when I graduate" should have a different weighting to "Run 4 races per year in ITB and 3 in G-Production."

You can't create a survey on "the need for maternity care" as a healthcare plan option if you don't collect gender/plan dependent information. Well, you can, it just would not be of any practical use. Same basic principle happens here. If you cannot slice the data based on criteria, it has no inherent value other than this is how ALL people responded irrespective if they are familiar with the subject matter. The upside is, you now (currently) have a very interesting comparison dataset to compare valid survey responses against. For your survey to be actually representative, you will want to get survey responses from places other than the web unless you can force all users registering for events to answer this prior to entering the track at some kiosk at registration. If you can't, the survey is only a capture of "[criteria] participants that answer surveys on IT.com (or Honda-Tech.com) responded as follows." There really isn't a funnel to force all members to view and choose to respond (if you could, irrespective of them responding or not, its a much more accurate capture of all members), therefore you are banking that you get a valid sample of SCCA membership from here (and you won't unless I am off my nut - quite possible ). You actually might be able to sell the SCCA the marketing data however for those members that use the internet

This is not meant as an attack, just a couple of thoughts since you are posting results. Personally, I'd be very interested in how National class competitors would respond to IT becoming a National class.

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Adam in Charlotte
#42 ITA CRX Si