Stay in A or move to B?

[titanium]

Several post in the Mazda section have mentioned the first gen RX-7 could possibly be moving from ITA to ITB.
The reason (of course) is were too slow to be competitive in ITA. How about, instead of moving 'us' to 'B', give us the same rules as the piston enginge cars in IT and allow port matching on the 12A rotary?
********************************************
Rodney Williamson
#93 IT7
www.titaniummotorsports.com

[joeg]

Don't think it would happen. The SCCA has a long "tech" history with the Rotary and knows its great power potential occassioned by relatively simple porting.

They are not likely going to change on that.

Actually, I believe Rotary-fear is much older (and justified) than Turbo-fear, which came out of mid-eighties to early 90(s) SS racing.

[whenry]

Ironically, rotaries were probably(and may still be) more hated than even Honda's in the IT culture. Primarily due to the simple ease of building power. Then the CRX was introduced and several "adjustments" were made that brought the RX's back to the pack. Of course eventually the CRX outstripped the potential for RX's and it is rare that a real RX ever shows at a race.
With the lollypop, it is realitively easy to determine if a rotary has been ported. The only way that you could allow porting would be to allow open porting just like open computers.

[dickita15]

I understand not allowing porting on the block but does anyone have any idea what the gain could be if we could match the intake manifold within 1" of the gasket.
also what would it do if they gave us a deent alternate carb.
dick

[JeffYoung]

I posted this on another thread, and have no real interest in the debate, but I am wondering about the one or two IT7 RX7s here in the SEDiv that hold track records as fast or faster than any ITA car? Is it truly the car that is the problem? It seems from my real world experience that the RX7s can compete, but maybe it is an aberration, I don't know.

[ITSRX7]

Jeff,

A legal ITA RX-7 vs. a legal CRX has the Honda in a hands down romp given like preparation and like drivers. Lighter, more advanced suspension and MORE power.

I will not speak for the IT7 class as I do not know the rules.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by ITSRX7:
Jeff,

A legal ITA RX-7 vs. a legal CRX has the Honda in a hands down romp given like preparation and like drivers. Lighter, more advanced suspension and MORE power.

I will not speak for the IT7 class as I do not know the rules.

AB

Andy, wasn't that the deal w/ IT7, RX7's prepped to ITA rules, just not running against any of the other ITA cars? I know Spec7/SRX7/Pro7 have different rules, but IIRC, from the conversations a couple years ago, that's what the folks from the SEDiv said about IT7.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[lateapex911]

Yes, IT-7s are ITA RX-7s. No difference, it's just an option excercised by some regions that want to get more cars out to race, knowing that folks will sit home rather than getting their tails whipped. So, give 'em a class, and see if they show. Generally, from what I understand, it has helped entries. I would prefer it wasn't needed.

In NER, we have a perpetual "Mazda Cup" that goes to the fstest RX-7 of the event.

Porting is a fast way to the front, and the temptation is great. And there are other internal tricks that are not lolipop detectable that have some of the same benifits as porting. Illegal, of course.

I have heard rumours of fast RX-7s whipping the CRXs in certain areas, but they are isolated.

The facts: A CRX weighs about 200 pounds less than a 7. And it puts out about 125 HP. Some say the 7 engine can match the overall number in IT trim, but not the torque. And the 7 carries a live rear axle. IF the 7 had the same power it is still an uphill battle to match a car with a better suspension, better throttle response, and nearly 10% less weight.

I would be interested to hear how these RX-7s are making their power, as it is a prodigious amount, to be sure.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Andy, wasn't that the deal w/ IT7, RX7's prepped to ITA rules, just not running against any of the other ITA cars? I know Spec7/SRX7/Pro7 have different rules, but IIRC, from the conversations a couple years ago, that's what the folks from the SEDiv said about IT7.

Bill,

I'm up here in NeDiv so the fact I don't know 100% of what I am talking about with regard to IT7 prompted me to keep my mouth shut. Jake has enlightened me. Tough to keep track of all the Regional-only classes and their specific rules.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967

[ddewhurst]

Just to add some information the IT7 class is a South East Division, CenDiv & Mid west Division class. It's more than a Regional only here & there class.

I beleive in the CenDiv thay get a good race group at Mid Ohio mainly because the folks took the time to set up a series of 6 or 7 races with sponsers & awards. G-Force Engineering is the top sponsor IIRC.

Have Fun
David

Jake, check the Mazda forum.

[RX767]

Rodney,
Congratulations on the birth of your daughter.

To all,

I have recently been lost in a professional abyss. I have not followed many of the threads here, and reading Fastrack is generally aggravating. Most, if not all, of the IT requests are met with the same interpretation of the same rules to give the same standard "NO".

- Along with this thread of reclassing the first generation RX7 from ITA to ITB, and others regarding the RX7 in HP, and one mention of going from 7" to 6" wheels, what is the source of these conversations? Are any of these changes being discussed within the structure of SCCA or are these the product of bench racing during a long Winter?

- Does anyone have an update regarding the IT competition adjustment initiative that SCCA began last year or has it died a political death?

- Granted, the RX7 could be viewed as symptomatic of the larger problems facing IT, yet, if your division is fortunate to have healthy IT7 fields, why would anyone care where it is moved?

To 1st gen. RX7 drivers,
If you totaled your current race car, would you build/buy another RX7 or switch to something else?

To other IT drivers,
If you totaled your current race car, would you consider a 1st gen. RX7 as your next race car?

Bill Emery
Glen Region
ITA#23

[Weaver7]

I agree allow us to do some porting to at least make it somewhat interesting. I'm not complaining but lets stop fooling ourselves the 1st gen can't run with a CRX. To fast for B to slow for A I think the NE should start an IT-7 class does anyone know why we haven't??

Bill are you planning on running at Poconos??

Bill Weaver
#63 ITA RX-7

[RX767]

Bill,
How are things in the the Northern Tier? Maybe we seen the last of this ice and snow.

I was planning to start the season at Nelson Ledges 5/22-23 and return to NL on June 12-13 for a Central Division regional with IT7. Part of June and July is going to be messed up with grad. school, and I am not sure how the rest of the Summer race schedule will shape up.
Have you raced at NL yet? It is a fun track and they continue to make needed improvements.

Bill Emery
Glen Region
ITA#23

[RSTPerformance]

No I wouldn't build a RX-7 for any class, Miata would be the Mazda of my choice, 2 spec classes this year and probably close to 50 total miata entries at the big events... Although many of the drivers can be a pain, most probably are not (hummm it might be close ). The class is probably the most successful and challenging.

Sorry RX-7 guys...

we probably don't have a RX-7 car specific class because I don't think that anyone is confident enough to get a consistant 6 cars (isn't that the requirement?).

Raymond Blethen

PS: I am against the RX-7 cars moving to ITB, they would be to fast legal not to mention many of them that I have seen are a little... ummm fast and I don't think it is all driver. From what people have posted it seems much to easy to cheet and get away with it.

[ITSRX7]

Come 'on Ray! You race for the fun of it, remember! (I still remember you blasting anyone who complained about the BMW's in ITS...) :0

The ITA RX-7 could never move to ITB without some weight change. Detecting a bogus rotary is easy, you just have to do it.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967

[titanium]

Originally posted by RX767:
Rodney,
Congratulations on the birth of your daughter.

Thank You Bill.

what is the source of these conversations? Are any of these changes being discussed within the structure of SCCA or are these the product of bench racing during a long Winter?

Mike Cox and I were at the National/Regional at Sebring in January dicussing this because we had only THREE IT7's show up. If the IT7 turnout remains that low, we'll be put back in 'A' before the Runoffs.
So, this is a 'what if' question.
If IT7 dies in the Southeast Region, what do I do?

To 1st gen. RX7 drivers,
If you totaled your current race car, would you build/buy another RX7 or switch to something else?

Switch to something else.
I got into IT to use as a stepping-stone to somthing faster. In 2 to 5 years, I hope to be racing in SPO or GT1. So, if I total the car, I'll start earlier.

******************************************
Rodney Williamson
#93 IT7
www.titaniummotorsports.com

[dickita15]

[quote]Originally posted by Weaver7:
I think the NE should start an IT-7 class does anyone know why we haven't??

we have talked about it in narrc a few times. most of the proponents i belive have decided to wait and see what comp adjustments will bring. i for one like racing against lots of brands with large fields. My guess if comp adjustment fail to provde us any hope we will make IT7 happen here.
dick patullo
ner ita rx7

[cherokee]

Just tossing something out for you to think about....Is the RX7 the problem? or is another car that is above all others the problem? I ran ITA last year and those honda's are FAST...everywhere. I don't think that the 7 belongs in ITB, so there are two fixes that I see. Speed up the 7 and everyone else, or slow down the honda.

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by cherokee:
so there are two fixes that I see. Speed up the 7 and everyone else, or slow down the honda.

IMHO, it ain't just the CRX. I think you will find that the Acura and 240SX are better than the 1st gen RX-7 given like driver and prep. I also think that the Miata is about to spring on the scene.

Without engine allowances, bringing the RX-7 down to a lower weight is virtually impossible I hear...so what if the RX-7 were in ITB at say...2490 with 6" wheels?

Just a SWAS(suggestion) - but you get the idea.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967