Typical cost to buy a front running ITA or ITB car?

[gran racing]

I'm trying to determine some longer term goals...one option is build an engine and the other is buy a front running ITA or ITB car. (Of course the costs of the two options are pretty different.) I realize that a lot of the pricing depends on luck and timing, but what do you estimate it would cost to purchase a front running ITA or ITB car. Something that is already built; basically a no excuses car.

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[racer_tim]

eBay has a couple of IT cars listed now. ITC VW Scirocco, in PA
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...2&category=6060

ITB BMW 2002 in CO
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...&category=42601

You also have an assortment of AS's and some track type cars.

Your most always going to spend MORE to build up a car from scratch, than buy a car already built.

Your mileage will very.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[rgrunenw]

From my observation, the front running cars in ITA here in Cendiv seem to be in the $14k - $20k range used and in excellent, race ready condition with decent spares.

Comparable ITB front runners here in Cendiv tend to be a bit less as the class seems to be in decline - no new cars classified and no new cars built. Prices around $11k - $14k.

I've seen some very good cars in the $10k - $12k range, but that seems the exception rather than the rule.

[ITSRX7]

WOW. Those prices are up there. In my research, ITA is significantly more expensive than ITB. There was a real nice ITA CRX up on this site a month ago or so...UNDER $10K by a decent amount.

$15K buys you an RX-7 that can run up front (but not a concourse quality SpeedSOource car).

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967

[RSTPerformance]

HOw much money to buy a front running car depends on a lot... I can't remember seeing anyone buy a front running car and be a front runner.

I don't see any reason in the North East why an ITB front running car should cost more than $6,000.00-$7,000.00 max with a good driver. I know other drivers have spent more, but I would wonder how much the current front runners would spend (knowing what they know now) to build a new car.

From what I have seen in the Northeast ITA you need to have an acura of forget it, you cand spend as much as you want in ITA on another car but you wont win (I hope next year I am proven wrong).

Don't spend more than 10K on a used ITA or ITB car, anyone I have ever seen spend that much (on an already built car with hopes to win) hasn't done as well as someone who has spent half that much. Buy a cheeper car and spend the money developing (fine tunning) it to your driving style. Basically buy a car with all the basics for less and go from their.

Dave, best of luck next season!!!

Raymond Blethen

[m glassburner]

raymond,what are you building for ita? an audi?

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[Tom Blaney]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
From what I have seen in the Northeast ITA you need to have an acura of forget it, you cand spend as much as you want in ITA on another car but you wont win (I hope next year I am proven wrong).Raymond Blethen

WHAT!!!! What am I chopped liver, the CRX is still the top running ITA car. Anthony is very fast and his car is very well prepared, but I suspect that it's not a 10K car. Dollar for dollar, I think the CRX is faster and cheaper to run and is the ride to beat in the NE.

IMHO :P

[Bill Miller]

Call BSI Racing and ask them what a new ITB A3 Golf will cost you. It'll be ready to go, and will probably run at the front. And how much did Sam Moore want for his Volvo? IIRC, it was ~$12,500. That's for a car w/ multiple ARRC wins.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[eh_tony!!!]

Shameless self promotion = 'ON'

I'm selling my ITB Fiat Spider. $6K. The car is quite quick and has out qualified a specific Volvo at CMP. Can't quite keep up at say, VIR or Atlanta in it's present config, but has the potential to.

Scott Matre
[email protected]

[gran racing]

Raymond, what do you think the reason that people who buy front running cars are often not a front runner? Because the car doesn't fit their driving style or because the driver has not worked on their driving skills enough and hope to buy their way to the front?

Ouch! Some of the prices ranges given are a bit higher then I was hoping for. But I guess it makes sense because we're talking about a front running car. $6K - $7K sounds reasonable.

The next year or two is a somewhat tough time to buy a car with the possiblity of SCCA shaking things up in the classifications. It will also be pretty interesting to see how the civic does now that it was reclassified into ITA and the golf in ITB.

The CRX si does look like it would be a fun car to race. Guess I should just start saving my pennies...

What about buying a top NASA car (a make & model that does well in SCCA) and bringing that over? Although I would assume the typical prices would be about the same.

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by gran racing:
Raymond, what do you think the reason that people who buy front running cars are often not a front runner? Because the car doesn't fit their driving style or because the driver has not worked on their driving skills enough and hope to buy their way to the front?

Raymond was being polite while voicing reality. Many times, "front-running car" really should be read as "front-running driver". There are cars that are prepped well that continually finish mid-pack. There are "iffy" cars that run up front.

Invest in the driver, not in the car. Cars crash, blow up, get eclipsed by newer rockets in the class, etc. Invest in the driver and you'll take it with you, whatever you're driving.



[This message has been edited by JohnRW (edited February 16, 2004).]

[B Schley]

Also, front running car/driver can mean tired car, that is being sold on its reputation. I agree with what the others have said. A good solid car that can be developed is the way to go. Look at mid-field cars where the driver may not be as fast, but is always running. To me, $10,000 is more that enough to get a really nice ITA car. BTW, here in Cen Div the CRX is still the car to beat.

[RSTPerformance]

I guess I was being polite... From what I have seen the newbie drivers who do the best are the ones that build the car/driver together (you can buy a car that is built but you will "rebuild" make changes over the first 2-3 years before you become a contender). Once the driver has been "built" or has developed he/she should be able to get into any car (that is compeditive) that has the basics spend a small amount of $ and time to fine tune it and be a front runner. (Yes as always their are a few exceptions to this, but in most cases you can not buy your way to the front, thier is no one car that dominates any IT class so much that a poor or rather undeveloped driver could win or be a top runner, if legal)

Tom- You are where the "I hope I am proven wrong" comment came from. I think you might be the only person to ever give anthony or any of the Acura's a run for their money. Also hoping Jermey Shepard might have a chance in his new ITA car.

Glassburner-

not building any ITA cars at this point, contimplated a lot building a 2.3L coupe GT but we are also looking at possible cars for ITS. Wont do anything this year... maybe for 2005!!!

We also have the old Capri... humm maybe we should fix that for vintage and ITA???

Raymond

[moto62]

Originally posted by Tom Blaney:
WHAT!!!! What am I chopped liver...
IMHO :P

SCRAPPLE is more like it.
Dave, you can get Antny's car for around $25k+ or you can get mine for around $18k...but they're not for sale. Actually, good front running cars can be had for $6 to $12k's depending on the level of prep or the situation on why the car is being sold in the first place. Another factor to consider on some front running cars is, not the type of car or the level of prep, but the ability of the driver to go fast in whatever car he or she is in. The CRX would seem to be the car to have if you went to the ARRC. The field looked like Spec CRX. Here in the Northeast, top 5 could be Integra, CRX, Civic, VDub, Nissan, etc.,and not too long ago, myself and the Sheppard boys with RX-7's would be in the mix. Bottom line is, you can get a few variety of cars that can run up front but it all depends on commitments, time, money and effort.
Ray

[rgrunenw]

My comments were based upon top-notch cars I have seen advertised and personally know about, and cars I have personally inspected.

I also agree that there are some cars sold more on reputation (skill of the driver) than on the basis of the level of design, engineering, and execution on the car itself.

For $7k - $10k, you should easily be able to get a very nice, solid, reasonably quick top 1/3 of pack car. I have found that the incremental investment to move from there to first or second place performance is high and seems disproportionate, and agree with the comments about investing in the driver.

Good luck!

Rich

[gran racing]

Oh I definately agree with investing in the driver first. That's why I'm running a very stock car (except a basic suspension and exhaust). I've been putting my money into getting track time and learning, not the car. I've put much more time than money in the car. Besides, the car won't be competitive in its current class no matter what I do to it. It is actually a good learning car. If I slow down or make a mistake, it really shows. It can also be a little tough to handle, and really teaches me car control.

But I definately want to get into a car at some point in the near future (maybe next year or a little later) that will be more competitive. I ran a few EMRA races (a local club in the NER area) and ran at the front. It also helps that my car is classified in their ITB equivalent. Although in SCCA ITB isn't really that far behind ITA. This gave me the flavor for being the car at the front and fighting for first. It was great! And it pushed me to decrease my lap times significantly.

I definately agree about finding the right car and not totally base it on it's past finishing place in races. Within one's own region, you can fairly easily ask around and people can direct you to a car that is only running mid pack because of the car. I do think it would be fun to get a car from another region (or NASA) that isn't well know in my region. Maybe I'm just strange like that? So, is the best way to find a great car simply by asking around? Like several have previously mentioned, a car driven by an "average" driver running towards the front but now winning is not the same as a car driven by an absolute great driver winning. The car now winning may actually be a better car.

It is interesting looking around at cars. Some state that they have won the big race or done really well. But in some of these situations it only has that crediential because the big players didn't show at that race, it was raining and they are local to that track, others had problems at the track, ect.

Somewhat related - how often is a rebuild necessary? I realize that a full engine build can cost a little over $3,000. But is a rebuild the same?

Thanks for all the info.!

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[R RACER]

Front running cars and what other extra's are always two seperate things, you don't need to spend alot of money but put it in the right things,but sometimes the front running cars have the right steering wheel spacers and thats it.For what I've spent on my car I could have built maybe two or three of Tom's CRX, but our lap times and Ray's are very close at certain tracks, develop the driver and then develop your car, I know of a pretty nice CRX with a trailer for 12k if your intersted email me and I'll give you the guys address. Another thing, always race within your budget, sometimes you might want to go down a class and have fresh rubber every weekend nad a car that is lower maint., the worst part of racing is being in debt to it , it always takes the fun out of it.I think ITC is a great class and the racing is very tight, Tim maybe might want to chime in here, he can tell you how much fun he is having moving down from an A car that was a major underdog, but always managed to finish well with it anyways.

[zracer22]

Did anyone take a look at this car that was mentioned above:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...2&category=6060

Could this car possibly have a logbook?
Look at the cage. The diaginal in the main hoop has a bend and there is no horizontil in the main hoop. Also, the rear braces have bends.

[pavis]

Dave:

As others have said "front running" usually means car has capability to go fast + fast driver. That being said, I'd consider myself a pretty average driver and was still "front running" with the car I'm selling. Take a look in the classified section (ITB GTi) and I'd be happy to talk. (shameless plug for my car!)

Pete

[Jake]

Saw the link. "Vintage" racer in this case translates to: "Does not meet current rules" Dave, my advice (for the future) is to keep your eyes peeled and buy a car that you know runs up front. i.e. Scott Haven's killer purchase.