How much money in your engine ?

**BVNitta** · 12-09-2003, 08:47 PM

I don't think I saw any discussion on this topic before. As I mull my options over the winter break, I wondered how much money ppl pour into building their IT-legal engines. This, I imagine is a function of a) make

class c) the 'how fast do you wanna go' syndrome. Not knowing how much ppl would admit to spending, I'm still curious to know how I can benchmark how much I plan to spend. So would appreciate your feedback on money spent, the extent of mods done & reliability.

Let me start off by saying that 4 yrs back, I spent $2500 on my 1.9l motor for the ITB Manta. 40-over pistons, engine balanced & blueprinted, manifold & cylinder head port matched, head planed with deck to get about 8.1:1 CR (stock is 7.6:1). I thought that was very expensive, but the motor did last me 4 seasons without a rebuild.

Bhima

**jc836** · 12-09-2003, 09:09 PM

Your estimate of $2500 is not far-fetched. It can depend on the degree to which one has to go to "freshen and upgrade" the engine. I have been told that a D16 head can be redone for under $900 for example. What the rest of the assembly would cost is governed by what you want to do.

------------------
Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

**ITSRX7** · 12-10-2003, 12:44 AM

Unfortunately, you won't get many people who will open up to this question. The big power/big money engine guys will keep quiet so as not to make waves. Can't blame them.

An ITS legal 13B Mazda from National builders will run you $3500-$4000.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

**JeffYoung** · 12-10-2003, 03:14 AM

No secrets here, since it is a slow ITS car. I just paid $1800 for a stock 3.5 liter (215) Rover V8 shortblock, pistons, crank, cam and lifters. .020 over pistons were outrageous, so I stayed stock. I pulled the heads and had them cleaned an checked and new valves for about $200.

Biggest improvement was having everything balanced. Car revs much more freely now.

**John Herman** · 12-10-2003, 08:38 AM

My engine is a DOHC, 16 valve, so it really depends on the core I have to start with. I plan on $2000-3000. The high end is new cams and pistons, then the normal wear and tear items. FWI, the long block assembly from the local auto parts store is approximately $2000 with the not as desireable pistons and cams (which are only available from the dealer, ouch).

**joeg** · 12-10-2003, 09:10 AM

Given that I build my own engines, I can keep my costs down to roughly $1500.00 per motor. A rebuild is around $300-500 cheaper since I usually do not re-deck or re-align hone on a rebuild and I can use a set of pistons (balanced with rods) already in stock (or reused). I get pretty finicky, so I do not reuse oil pumps, water pumps and certain fasteners.

Once you acquire the minimal tools necessary, engine building is not that bad.

Heavy machine work is farmed out. The tough work there is finding a shop you can trust to consistently do good quality work.

Cheers.

**jhooten** · 12-10-2003, 09:14 AM

Fresh from the junk yard for $200

**Greg Amy** · 12-10-2003, 10:19 AM

An IT-legal Sunbelt Nissan SR20DE long block will run you about $5000. It's very hard to build a good one for much less than that, unless you ignore things like the cost of machine work, cost of parts, and cost of labor...

Let's not forget the extra cost outside of that, like headers development, ECU development, intake development, exhaust system. I know of an IT guy that's got at least $1800 in just his exhaust header.

Sure, I can install a $400 junkyard engine, but that ain't an "IT engine", it's a "junkyard engine in an IT car"...

GregA

(...and then you're still 4-6% off the pace...)

**SamITC85** · 12-10-2003, 11:19 AM

My motor in my ITC rabbit built by Shine was between 2500 and 3000, and well worth every penny.

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Sam Rolfe
TBR Motorsports
#85 ITC VW Rabbit
#85 GP Scirocco on the way
#11 GP Scirocco on the way

**Festus E. Simkins** · 12-10-2003, 12:28 PM

For my 12A RX-7 I paid $950 delivered to the front door for a "Factory Authorized" rebuilt motor through a Mazda dealer (his cost). That was in 1996. I have changed the spark plugs once since then and a new battery. The engine is still running strong. Just don't over heat it. My competitors say it is a "Strong" motor. I just dropped it in and fired it up. Sometimes you just get lucky, I guess.

Drive well.

**Tom Blaney** · 12-10-2003, 12:33 PM

I charge $3500.00 to do a CRX/Si motor which included new pistons, pumps, fasteners, and a number of setup and machine steps I won't disclose here. But I know my motors are LEGAL (not like some ITA CRX's I've beaten) and reliable.

So you have to respect the amount of work that goes into doing it right. You do get what you pay for when it comes to this type of work.

Unfortunatly joeg trivialized the process a little by saying that once you get the minimal hand tools it's not too bad. For example there is more to slapping in a set of rings than "slapping in a set of rings".

Tom Blaney
http://www.sbmsinc.com/race_shop.html

**Banzai240** · 12-10-2003, 01:56 PM

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">How much money in your engine ?</font>

I try to keep as much money OUT of my engine as possible... tends to get stuck in the valvetrain!

------------------
Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX

**jhooten** · 12-10-2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by grega:

Sure, I can install a $400 junkyard engine, but that ain't an "IT engine", it's a "junkyard engine in an IT car"...

GregA

(...and then you're still 4-6% off the pace...)

No Greg, I said $200.

**joeg** · 12-10-2003, 03:48 PM

Tom...But I can gap my rings (file to fits) for little (or no)investment in special tools.

I don't count my time as money.

Cheers.

**Greg Amy** · 12-10-2003, 04:09 PM

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">No Greg, I said $200.</font>

And I said $400, which is the going price for a low-mileage JDM pullout SR20DE engine. At which point I'll be 6-8% off the pace.

I don't count my time as money.

Cool! You're welcome to come on over any time you'd like and help me work on my car. Given you're doing all the work, my engines are a helluva bargain, since it doesn't cost me one red cent to disassemble and clean the old engine, inspect the parts for replacement, machine the parts on my own (including cylinder bore and hone, polishing the crank and rods, align-boring, decking), balance and blueprint all other parts on my own, and assemble the parts into an engine. Damn, son, using your techniques I just built an engine for the price of main and rod bearings, rings, and a gasket set!

Hell, once you twist it that way, Improved Touring is CHEAP! I gotta tell my wife we just saved a lot of money by going racing!!! Woo-hoo!

**planet6racing** · 12-10-2003, 04:17 PM

I'm with Joeg on this one. My time doesn't count as money. Sure, I know I'm deluding myself, but if I added in all the time that I have spent working on the car to the total in parts, I'd be very depressed because I could either be a) racing a Z06 vette or

racing a DSR Radical or c) racing a competitive Formula Continental or d) half way to a new Ford GT.

I rather enjoy doing my own engine work. If the engine blows, I have but one person to blame. Plus, when I go through my checklist, I know it was done and was done correctly. That alone is worth my time.

This off season, I'm putting about $1200 into my engine with boring and parts. I could put more in by replacing everything (total was ~$2300), but I actually want to race next season...

------------------
Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

**gsbaker** · 12-10-2003, 05:49 PM

Bill,

I hear you. There is something about doing it yourself that is very rewarding. Reminds me of building drag engines with another student when I was in college. Everyone was saying, "There's no way you'll get 1.5 hp/ci in that class." Oh yeah? We dropped about $3K in machining alone.

Then again, I was at PRI (heavy on oval and drag racing) this past weekend when I spotted a slick little sports racer. Lots of carbon fiber and aero, including front and rear diffusers. With a 180hp motor it weighs 750#. Yeah, at $40K as a roller it was pricy, but 5#/hp is quite a ride.

Different strokes for different folks.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

**ITA240** · 12-10-2003, 06:00 PM

ok...How about we take this the other direction?..

Who has the least money in a successful IT engine? How about the guy I know whose engine was assembled by buying to junk engines from a brand H dealership(the engine were replaced as bad-1 bad head, 1 bad rod)for $20 if I remember correctly. One new head gasket, 4 qts, 1 oil filter, one windshield (long story-sorry about that) and the car is running up front again.

Jim

**Tom Blaney** · 12-10-2003, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by joeg:
Tom...But I can gap my rings (file to fits) for little (or no)investment in special tools.

I don't count my time as money.

Cheers.

Ad what did you pay for your honing plate and the special line bore tools

**Bill Miller** · 12-10-2003, 06:21 PM

Looks like a realistic range is $2000 - $5000, w/ somewhere ~$3500 being the average, based on the above info.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

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