Tow Vehicles

[Roy Dean]

Ok, so I've decided that I need a tow vehicle. Driving my racecar to hillclimbs is one thing, but I don't want to tempt fate when I start wheel to wheel racing. Racecar is an ITB Suzuki Swift GTi (competition weight is 1895 lbs). Right now my daily driver is a Subaru 2.5 RS (and it's trailer capacity is actually pretty close to the weight of the swift... but with trailer and wheels/tools/etc... it just won't cut it).

So, in trying to do this on the cheep, what does everyone suggest? Will a small pickup (such as a ranger or toyota) handle it (maybe with a V6)? Or pick up a beat up used cop car? Is a tow-dolly a decent option? I've been told that tow dolley's require the vehicle being towed to have a license plate... is this true? I never really noticed if the dolly's themselves have plates.

Regardless of what tow package I get, I'm screwed on space. Only a 2 car garage (one spot for the swift, one for the impreza), no room for a dolly/trailer/tow vehicle. I can park a tow vehicle on the street, but not a trailer/dolly. I'll have to figure that problem out for myself. Anyhoo, any suggestions?

--Roy

[Quickshoe]

Originally posted by Roy Dean:
So, in trying to do this on the cheep, what does everyone suggest?

There have been lots of prior posts on this topic. Lots of various ideas of what's required.

I've been told that tow dolley's require the vehicle being towed to have a license plate... is this true?

Varies by state. California requires anything with wheels on the ground to be currently registered.

Regardless of what tow package I get, I'm screwed on space. Only a 2 car garage (one spot for the swift, one for the impreza), no room for a dolly/trailer/tow vehicle.

Priorities. Sell the Impreza, buy a reliable truck/van/RV...whatever you decide. Renting a trailer won't be cost effective for very long. Storing a trailer in So. California can get pricey.

Perhaps you can find a local racer with a big trailer/tow vehicle and offer to pay for all the fuel and help prep their race car prior to the race in exchange for a tow to and from...

[lateapex911]

If you can wrangle the search function here, you willfind that this has been discussed at length.

That said, tow dollys suck, as most states require the towed vehicle to be tagged, and the towed car is still on the ground! It hardly acheives your objective, which is to get home when the unthinkable occurs. If you bend the rear you're out of luck. Besides, a used open trailer isn't that much more than a dolly. And, all it takes is an errant 2 x 4 to do serious damage to a tow dollied car.

Used open trailers can be had in your area for about a thou, and weigh about 1500 lbs.

The cheapest tow vehicle will be a used van, cuz they're just so unromantic! But, they hold lots of stuff, have big engines and are dry in the rain. Useful for moving too! If you go the V8 route, that or a pickup is the best choice.

Of course, get a reliable van, because working on that engine just sucks!

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Greg Amy]

The answer: a used 1-ton Ford E-350 V-8 diesel van. Ask the NE ARRC Caravan boys who got the best fuel mileage of the bunch (30-50% better on average) while filling it with cheaper fuel (10-15% cheaper on average) while having 25-100% longer range (at the same speeds) while hauling more "stuff", plus who had a makeshift bed in the back for the crew chief while hauling home all that stuff plus two complete longblock engines (one totaled, one borrowed)...you don't HAVE to choose orange if you don't want...

Of course, if you're flush, then the ultimate answer is Serra's borrowed camper powered by the Ford Powerstroke V-8 turbodiesel...

[JeffYoung]

All good advice. The problem is those vans and V8 pickups are Merican. They break. Regularly. Maybe not critical stuff, but you will be constantly repairing a mid 90s Ford/Dodge/Chevy van or pickup truck. Trannys can last as little as 70 or 80k. Motors, some go 200k, some 80k. Air cond, electrics, it can be a nightmare (I'm speaking from experience, I have a 99 Burb that tows a ton -- its a454 and has plenty of room, but something breaks once a quarter like clockwork).

Your rig is light. If you do it right, you will be at or less than 4,000 lbs. If I were you, and I didn't plan on moving "up" in car, I'd get a Toyota T100 with a camper shell, or possibly an early Tundra with a V8. These trucks don't haul like Merican iron, but they can tow your rig and they don't break. People hate T100s, you can get one cheap. Early Tundras might be in the $8 to 10k range, but you can drive it every day and it will run 200k like a damn Camry.

If I had to live with the truck every day, and had a rig of your size, that's what I would do.

[whenry]

Your lucky. With a light race car and few spares, the stress on your tow rig is not severe. I started in Sports Renault and a Safari 4.3 van and went all over the Southeast racing. When I switched to the RX3 and 18 ft trailer with spare parts and tires, I "upgraded" to the 454 'Burb and as was said earlier, the damn thing broke regularly( my favorite time was the water pump which was so new and rare that no parts place had one on a Sunday when I had a paddock full of GM mechanics to help change it out; got to stay overnight and have the GM dealer do it)
My preference is Ford but anything with a 5000# tow rating will work for you at this stage.
I will warn you that tow vehicles may be the most controversial issue in racing so the flaming may be brutal.

[whenry]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that with racing your priorities will change. I sold the 911 to buy the race car and the Quattro to buy the van. Get used to it. I have a V10 Excursion in the driveway and usually drive old RX7 or Miata as my driver. I keep reminding myself that I could probably have a ZO6 if I could forget racing. Nahhhhhhhhh

[gran racing]

I have to disagree with the tow dolly stinking... While I totally agree that a trailer is better (in case of accident, don't have any of the race car on the ground, ect) a tow dolly is not horrible. I have been using a dolly for the past year. Yes, most states do require that the car being towed has a plate on it. I have the race car with theft insurance only to keep the plate. Not such a bad thing anyway. I also pay about $10 a year for window coverage which I have taken advantage of. Many states do not require the dolly to have tags assuming a car is always on the dolly. The dolly becomes a part of the vehicle being towed. If you tow the dolly without a vehicle on it, it then needs tags.

It is very light (~ 500 lbs) and easy to store due to its size. It is an easy tow. When I need to move it, I can do it with out hooking it up to a vehicle.

Tow dollys can be found for about $450 - 500 in good shape. What is the tow rating for the Subaru? Not that you would want to do this, but I towed my 2,450 lb car with a tow vehicle that was rated for 2,000 lbs. Surprisingly it did very well.

Jake, Mr. Engineer, tell him about tow ratings versus what it can actually safely tow...

[SpeedyDave]

There are other considerations as well..
For me, I live in a city, which means parking is tough. I ended up getting a used Toyota 4runner, because it will tow the car (ok maybe it'll struggle a bit over mountains) haul people, and stuff, and as important - will FIT in parking spaces and garages. Very very important for us.
The giant vans and such are great if you've got the room to store them....

[planet6racing]

I towed with a dolly behind my E-150 van before I upgraded to my 20' open trailer. It was always exciting (at least to me). I always had a crew member behind me with the understanding that, should the car leave the dolly, it was their responsibility to put the car into the ditch or tree on the right side of the road and not let it cross to the left. All in all, it wasn't too bad, but the full trailer does make thing a lot nicer (there's something about have 6 straps holding the car versus 3...).

My one recommendation: brakes. Get a trailer (no matter what kind) with good brakes. You'll be thankful the first time crossing Indiana and a not too smart driver merges onto the interstate right in front of you at ~30 mph and you can't move left because there is a freight train of traffic already there.

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Bill
Planet 6 Racing
bill (at) planet6racing (dot) com

[Roy Dean]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Priorities. Sell the Impreza, buy a reliable truck/van/RV</font>

Not an option. I'd sooner get rid of my race car than be forced to drive a pickup/suv as a daily driver. I drove a pickup daily driver for 8 years... I'm never going back.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">That said, tow dollys suck, as most states require the towed vehicle to be tagged, and the towed car is still on the ground! It hardly acheives your objective, which is to get home when the unthinkable occurs. If you bend the rear you're out of luck. </font>

I CAN tow the front end. Sure, it's not desirable (and I'd have to lock the wheel somehow), but it COULD be done (even if I do mess up the tranny, I've got spares). Besides, if I mess up the car so bad that a dolley won't cut bringing it home, I think I've got more severe problems.

Jake, Mr. Engineer, tell him about tow ratings versus what it can actually safely tow...

Well, I am and engineer, and my experience says towing a car of any weight with a unibody car (especially a compact) is a BAD idea. I had a friend who used to tow a 1200 lb caterham super 7 on an open trailer with a BMW 318ti.... his diff (or was it rear cross member) got all messed up because of it. Unibody cars just cant handle real tow loads.

At this point, money isn't really a huge concern (even though I have none). Good thing is I have zero debt, so I can finance a nice truck or something. I, too, was thinking about a tundra or maybe even a used F150. But the problem still comes up as where the hell should I store the trailer? I'm seriously considering buying a trailer and letting my friend keep it at his shop (and use it for his rally car), with me snatching it for several events a year. Meh. I'll just keep thinking... car is out of commission until february, so I've got time. Thanks for the input.

[Team Rocket]

I also towed with a tow dolly for years (Dodge Caravan pulling a Rabbit). Best thing about it: I could remove the ramps and stand the dolly straight up on its wheels in the corner of my garage. Very convenient!

Having said all this, I moved to a trailer as soon as I could. Towing a dolly (without its own brakes) with a vehicle not really intended for towing (like a Caravan) wreaks heck on the tow vehicle. I went through plenty of brake pads, rotors, calipers and tie rod ends. Coming down the hill at Watkins Glen was the worst.

Jim

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Jim
Black Rabbit Racing, #154

[Quickshoe]

Roy,

I was right about the priorities, Just wrong about what yours would be

If a truck/suv is out of the question as a daily driver, then you need to address your storage problem. Since money, or lack thereof, isn't a big concern (the fact you aren't in debt puts you ahead of many) buy the truck/van/suv/RV whatever. Buy the trailer and store them both at the friends.

One note of caution. Trailers used by rally teams don't stay pretty very long. Pulling out of service at 2:30am to drive up a narrow, twisty, dark mountain road in an attempt to recover the broken rally car can be bad on equipment.

Quit racing, instead of driving a truck everyday??? The race car vs. SUV I almost understand.

[eh_tony!!!]

Point is, probably anything in a large mini-van to SUV will tow ok. I have had some friends that have had Ex-cop cars as well. Problem there is relatively light weight, low height, and soft suspension. Read... if you get into a jam, don't depend on the vehicle capabilities to get you out.
I have used an Astro for some years and it is mediocre, not bad, but not great. I've also towed with a 95 Isuzu rodeo. way better than the Astro except one area (less power, but had a tranny cooler etc).. brakes. Even with the 4 wheel disc, the Isuzu was lacking.
I now have a PSD excursion and pay $30/month for ourdoor parking of the trailer. It is a deal I can live with.
So, if you can budget say, $350-400/month for the tow vehicle, take 30-50 out and pay for storage of a decent trailer (enclosed or open). You'll have less stress cause of it.

Figure this into the equation.
Trip to the track is usually fine (except your behind schedule 90% of the time). On the way back, your tired, decompresing from the weekend, and want to be back for Monday work. Now you get into a dark rainstorm in traffic. Not the time to have an already white knuckled tow rig. It's not that you won't make in the first 100 times, but you'll be more rested and there's always that 101st tie out there looming.

So, what could you live with for a daily driver?? Caravan? Murano? New Dakota? 1998 Country Estate wagon?

BTW. If you go the open trailer route, electric brakes are a real savior. Air shocks in the rear help alot as well.

Also, don't forget where you are now and where your obsession will take you. It isn't a far journey from "just the car and a few tools" to "the car and a few spares" to "spare tranny, 2 dry's and rains, tent, grill, air compressor, generator, Ezup, so on and so on." ................ don't think it can't happen to you.. lol

[eh_tony!!!]

PS. forget that don't buy Merican crap...
I have an Astro with 265K on it that will testify otherwise. The Ex also has 70K on it ($0 in repairs), Saturn with 125K, etc.
3.4 and tundras had huge head gasket problems. Acura Legends sludging up after 60K. Camry's with carbon clogged intakes.

Key here is to research what you buy.

My fav was a news skit on one of the networks where a guy was saying (upon the announcement of Ford cancelling the Ex), "I'd never buy one of those, I have 260 hp and get 19 MPG". Well, I had 250/525 lb/ft (now about 375/720), and still get 21.5 MPG highway. Hell, even the full size Tahoe can avg 20 on the highway.

[JeffYoung]

Ok, don't buy SOME Merican crap. Like any pre-2001 GM product.

Toyotas have problems too, but the overwhelming evidence is you are going to get a lot more trouble free miles, on average, out of a Toyota than you are a Chevy or a Ford or a Dodge.

[OTLimit]

What scares me the most about you guys who think you can tow your little open trailer or tow dolly and your race car with a smaller vehicle is that you never look at the TOTAL weight of the rig. BTW, after you go to a few races and start throwing in more spares, reweigh everything then, and tell me it's still safe.

A trip across a scale at your local truck stop can be an enlightening experience and will cost you just a few bucks.

Believe me, we have been there and done that with just about every conceivable scary trip that you can think of. Ask Chris about seeing the whole side of his race car out the back window. That's why our tow vehicle keeps getting bigger as he keeps hauling more crap to the track. Hopefully the TowMaster15000 will make it's debut in the spring.

Taking risks to get your car to the track is not smart.

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Lesley Albin
Over The Limit Racing
Blazen Golden Retrievers

[moliver]

Hey Roy:

I think you need to buy a full size pick-up truck for a tow vehicle.....that way you can drop off that FSAE car for Andy!!

Good excuse to visit Chicago too.

Mike
eagerly waiting to see if I fit in the car too!!

[cherokee]

I would also suggest that you not skimp on insurance. I tow with an old RV so it is not used that much and it does not cost much to crank up the coverage on the tow vehicle AND trailer. Think how much damage that thing could do, there are lots of people that will jump in front of you when towing...Do your reasearch on the insurance rates, for me the enclosed trailer was cheaper to insure then the open trailer the ins. company told me they have less claims on enclosed trailers thus the cheaper rate.

[Roy Dean]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Buy the trailer and store them both at the friends.</font>

Thats not a problem. I have a two car garage. Swift and Impreza in the garage. Tow vehicle parked out front on street or in the alley behind my house.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Quit racing, instead of driving a truck everyday???</font>

Yup. NEVER GOING BACK. Ever.

Also, don't forget where you are now and where your obsession will take you. It isn't a far journey from "just the car and a few tools" to "the car and a few spares" to "spare tranny, 2 dry's and rains, tent, grill, air compressor, generator, Ezup, so on and so on." ................ don't think it can't happen to you.. lol

It already has. At one hill climb, I had a full set of wheels/tires, large 2 ton jack (not the aluminum one... the old school northern hydraulic cast iron one), air tank, bag with safety gear, milk crate with some fluids and spares, tool box, and a 10x10 EZ-UP (the 75 lb steel version)... all crammed into the swift.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Taking risks to get your car to the track is not smart.</font>

I agree. I'm just trying to find a happy medium between safety, convenience, and co$t.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">that way you can drop off that FSAE car for Andy!!</font>

How about you tell him to get off his lazy butt and return my emails. The car is ready to go, hell it'll fit in the back of a ranger or s10. If you're more than 20 or so lbs bigger than andy, your going to have a tight squeeze (specifically, shifting will be a problem). But I'm sure Andy will finally fix that problem.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">I would also suggest that you not skimp on insurance.</font>

Good call. How much is trailer insurance, anyway???