"When I started racing, I quit driving like an idiot...

[Knestis]

...on public roads."

This is a common response among racers and, with that in mind, I'm working on a proposal to seek grant and/or corporate sponsorship funding for an anti-agressive driving program, using my new race car as a tool to target this message to folks - most notably young people - in the Greensboro, NC area.

A recent study found GB to be the most dangerous place in NC to drive and attributes much of the problem to agressive driving, speeding, running lights, and other types of jackassery. My program - as envisioned - would be "Take driving to the next level" kind of thing, exposing people to motorsports and drawing the distinction between "racing" (that happens on a track) and "transportation" - getting from place to place on the street.

As I work on this, I'd be interested to get your reflections on the issue, this approach to addressing it, and the philosophy behind it. I might be able to use some of your quotes for example, to illustrate the "I was lost but now am found" kind of thing that many of us go through when we "take it to the track."

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...

K

[MarkL]

"In order to finish first, you must first finish." With that in mu=ind, I think that most drivers get into a naturally defensive mode whenever they are behind a steering wheel. If they also drive the tow rig, it is even more enhanced. Also, I don't need the expense and associated annoyances of wrecking ANY of my vehicles.

MarkL
who is not an active driver any more , but who continually holds out hope for a return to the wars.

[gsbaker]

Kirk,

Good idea. You are not alone in your thinking. This was published yesterday:

" 'Jeep crash injures 5 classmates,' the headline said. One has since died. The driver 'just turned 16'... Her drivers license was 2 days old....

And where to start? Log onto www.autocross.com, click on "club list," and you'll be sent to Web sites for multiple local clubs. Go watch an event. It's free.

And take a teen. The answer isn't better cars. It's better drivers."

The link is here: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/classified/...0,3508192.story

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Gregg Baker
Isaac, LLC
[email protected]

[oanglade]

I would leave the high school parking lot everyday by smoking my tires all the way up the steep hill that led to the exit.

I thought I could drive. I thought I was above average.

A lot of years later, I still felt and acted the same way. Then, I went to an autocross in my new Miata. That was a huge eye opener. All those people in sedans and econoboxes were a lot faster than I was in my little sports car! Still, I thought that it was because they had aftermarket suspension or race tires and ignored the long list of street tire and stock suspension cars that also beat me.

I signed up for a Driver's Education event at a road course. My instructor drove my car, with me in the passenger seat. This showed me, first hand, how much I had to learn and how much more my car had in it that I didn't even know how to tap. I got hooked on doing driver education events at the track and then moved into racing.

After that first event, I immediately saw that there was no point in trying to drive fast on the street. I would never be able to push the car as hard on the street as I could on the track, without taking huge risks to myself and others. So, I thought "What's the point?". I know I can take that corner down the road a lot faster, since it's just like turn 9 at TWS, but at the track there is no incoming traffic, there's plenty of runoff area if I make a mistake and there is no chance of a finding a little kid crossing the road on the other side of the turn. On the street, I can't use all the road, so I really can't go as fast as on the track. On the track I don't have to keep my eye out for the police or the concerned soccer mom to report me as a "road rager".

Racing also has taught me about risks. At the track, I have a lot of safety equipment in my car and myself that I don't have on the street. There's a whole network of trained personnel available within seconds to help in case of an emergency.

The experience of being able to drive a car as close to the limit as you can, without the concerns that you have to have on the street makes it so much better than anything you could try on the street that it simply makes it not worthy to even try on the street. At least for me.

[cherokee]

I agree with you K. I have a FNF kid that lives by me. When he saw the car being put together he came over like bees to honey. I am trying to get him to a DE event or something...but he says the cars are boaring. No wings big tires that kind of thing...they just don't look cool. Don't let anyone fool you these kids have money and are spending it on their cars, the only difference is they are Hondas and Toyotas not Chevys and Fords...like when I was a kid.

[7racing]

I am an instructor for an advanced driver training program. Similar to what it sounds like you are proposing. One of the comments we hear is "you are giving a novice driver the tools on how to get more performance from their car." In a sense, that is true. The attitude of the student means a lot. If they take out of it that they can do a 60mph lane change, and then show their buddies that on the highway, who is at fault for the impending accident?

We liken it to gun safety classes. They teach you how to use your gun and shoot at targets. Is that the same as shooting at someone? You are giving them the training to do it. It is all a matter of the student's attitude, and what they do with the training.

Good luck with this. I hope it works out, as it is needed.

Jeremy

[whenry]

It is also very similar to Judo or karate classes where you are teaching someone skills that they could use to harm or maim another but you are also teaching them the culture that the skills can only be used under certain circumstances. Street driving is not fun on most occasions because you cannot drive the same as on the track and you are much more aware of the circumstances. If racing has done one thing for me, it has changed the cars that I drive on the street since there are few places that you can really use the ability of 911, Z06 or such. Yes, part of that is my $$ goes to racing instead but what fun is a car that can go 150+ if there is no place to use it.
I dont even enjoy the "Dragon" anymore because it pales compared to the Dip at RA or the Rising S's at VIR.

[gsbaker]

This brings back a lot of memories. When I was in high school a friend and I did some truly outrageous things in automobiles. In retrospect, it's amazing we're still alive.

This culminated in my seriously-warmed-over 1957 Chevy Nomad wagon, complete with a straight front axle, tilt-up 'glass front end, and 15.50 M&H Racemasters--Cragar wheels, of course. We both moved on to road courses.

My friend now has two kids approaching driving age. He insists they will not get the keys to the family cars until they have some experience with a HPDE or autocross. He says, "I don't want their first slip to be on a public highway."

I agree with the posts here. Streets are boring.

I stopped at a light recently behind a plain-Jane sedan. One bumper sticker read, "If it's street legal, it's too slow." The other read, "SCCA Club Racing"

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Gregg Baker
Isaac, LLC
[email protected]

The worst part of all this is the simple fact, you can't teach common sense to someone who has none...

Some people come out of 6 years of college with all sorts of degrees and are still idiots when it comes down to the simplest things in life.

Oh, and being a truck driver with over 2 million accident free miles in the last 20 years, I can safely say that I've seen more "idiots' behind the wheel than most.

[This message has been edited by 2Many Z's (edited October 10, 2003).]

[Geo]

Originally posted by gsbaker:
I agree with the posts here. Streets are boring.

Boring? I think the streets can be downright terrifying at times!


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Geo]

Kirk.....

Major kudos pal!

I have to agree with your first sentence as many others do as well. Within a couple of weeks of beginning karting my whole demeanor on the road changed. I was no longer interested in being "boy racer" on the street. I realized that not only wasn't I "boy racer" but that nobody was and those who tried to be were downright stupid.

Good luck. I wonder if some of the professional racing community (albeit NASCAR) may be able to help find some corporate sponsors?

Originally posted by 7racing:
I am an instructor for an advanced driver training program. Similar to what it sounds like you are proposing. One of the comments we hear is "you are giving a novice driver the tools on how to get more performance from their car." In a sense, that is true. The attitude of the student means a lot. If they take out of it that they can do a 60mph lane change, and then show their buddies that on the highway, who is at fault for the impending accident?

We liken it to gun safety classes. They teach you how to use your gun and shoot at targets. Is that the same as shooting at someone? You are giving them the training to do it. It is all a matter of the student's attitude, and what they do with the training.

Good luck with this. I hope it works out, as it is needed.

Jeremy

COULDNT FIND AN ORIGINAL NAME?

[lateapex911]

I wish they had a program other than the "ball rolls out between the cars, so you better be alert" typical drivers training program when I was a kid!

As a new driver, (and really, as a race driver) the biggest challenge is aligning reality and perception. The reality of how fast the car and tires can take that corner on that day, versus the perception of the same.

A new driver will have less accuracy to his or her perception, and often that perception is grossly affected by outside influences, like races on TV, movies, and a general lack of respect for the laws of physics. Add to that the affects of drugs and drinking, and the components of disaster are there.

Most disasters are caused by a combination of events. Remove just one, and disaster can be averted.

Traditional driver training drones on with numbers and safe following distances, then pounds it home with gore pictures, but it all falls on deaf ears, as numbers and pictures are so far from reality.


Driving a car in a safe environment at speed was an eye opening experience. Experiencing the car at and over the limit did much for making me a more aware street diver. I learned that the differences between road surfaces can be dramatic, and that there is a huge importance to tires, tire condition and inflation.

Once I started racing, I was a changed man. After a race, you could pour me into the passenger seat, and drive home 5 miles an hour under the speed limit, and I was fine with it! And my street driving has certainly toned down as well.

But it didn't happen all at once. As I said earlier, it takes a combination of events to cause a disaster, and changing just one can change the end result. Giving novice drivers a real concrete feel for the reality and percetion issues can be that one element. Kids will party, and they will drink and smoke, and often drive as well. But if we can help them remember that cars can't go through corners at the same speed as they see in the movies and on TV, they might have that one element that will be needed to avoid disaster.



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[bobpink]

I wholeheartedly agree with the "common sense" or lack thereof of some of these kids on the streets.

Just last night I was coming home from the girlfriends and had a little run-in with one of these piece of s**t kids. My Protege5 sports some big wheels and is lowered due to my interest and participation with a World Challenge Touring Car team. While I really like the look, it unfortunately draws the attention of these kids who want to play. Although I expected some of this, I didn't think it would be so bad.

Saw this kid in an old bone stock Chevy Cavalier which had a couple of his friends along pull out of parking lot and then run up on me. We got on a nearby freeway and I was able to put some distance between us due to traffic, but it wasn't long before I saw him speeding up to catch me where he latched himself onto my rear bumper - like you can barely see the headlights. I switched lanes to let him by. Nope. He switched right behind me. I eventually had to slow to 20mph to get this kid to come around me! It became obvious afterwards he was not comfortable with this. While I will admit I briefly returned the favor which got his attention, I resisted the urge to carry on a road rage game with him and let speed on his merry way.

We did pull off the same exit and I sensed he was planning on making his way to wherever, but seeing me behind him caused him to get back on the freeway. The next time one of these s**t kids plays this game the Georgia State Patrol will be hearing from me. Total nonsense.

A HPDE class may help someone like this, but I think it would have been more effective to beat him about the head with a stick.

Bob Pinkowski
Atlanta Region SCCA
2003 ARRC Committee

[This message has been edited by bobpink (edited October 12, 2003).]

[Anubis]

Parenting would also be rather helpful.

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Lance Snyder
Atlanta Region F&C

I watched the Indy 500, and I was thinking that if they left
earlier they wouldn't have to go so fast.

[JDEllis]

Originally posted by Anubis:
Parenting would also be rather helpful.

That makes too much sense, Lance.

Would certainly make eating out much better as well, though!

-jde




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J.D. Ellis
OVR #71 ITS Olds Calais
[email protected]

[MMiskoe]

Attitude is everything. As an instructor for HPDE club I get to see everything. The best students are those that recognize that they aren't going to be Mario Andretti, ever, but if they pay attention they'll go faster. This goes on the street too, those with a chip on their shoulder probably won't ever figure it out.

Now anothing to consider is that racers as a group are not necessarily the safest drivers. Recently saw a thing on TLC channel about causes of accidents vrs driving style. A lot of it comes down to the ability to accept risk. There is skill involved too, but those that are willing to accept risk are those most likely to get in trouble. True for most anything. So take your average racer - good skills, good coordination, good amounts of self confidence (I can do this!) and a pretty decent ability to accept risk, especially in a car. Put it together and you've got someone who is more likely to get in an accident because of the last two items.

Its kind of a double edge sword. By showing someone what the car can do, it can expand their confidence level and therefore they drive closer to the limit without bringing any more common sense to the table.

One thing you can get through someones head is distances used up in slowing down. Spend an afternoon working a really high speed turn, walk the turn, then go drive it. It is truely amazing to see how many hundred feet can get used up trying to straighten out a car at high speed. 75mph is roughly 110 feet per second.

[Knestis]

Okay - I'm interested in the "racing drivers aren't the safest drivers" hypothesis...

In the last 10 years I've had one speeding ticket (70+ in a 55, crossing eastern Wasthington State in the middle of a sunny afternoon), and no accidents. I piss people off because I yield to pedestrians but that's a different issue...

How do your case studies stack up? Those of your fellow racers?

[Diane]

Originally posted by MMiskoe:
Its kind of a double edge sword. By showing someone what the car can do, it can expand their confidence level and therefore they drive closer to the limit without bringing any more common sense to the table.

I believe this is 100% attitude. In the posts above (and myself included, IMO), by showing what the car can do and expanding confidence, we drive safer. I am more alert to those around me. Have you ever watched people on the road and *known* when they were going to make a lane change before they did it or put on their blinker? Try it on your commute this week and see how good you are. I find it to be a great exercise.

However, put "how to drive fast" into the hands of someone with an attitude and chip on their shoulder, and who thinks nothing bad can ever happen to them, then you have problems.

I also think parenting helps more with eating out then driving. When you were 16, did anything your parents say matter? Except knowing you'd be dead if you put a scratch on the car - that's what kept me clean!

IMHO,

Diane

[Geo]

Originally posted by Diane:
I also think parenting helps more with eating out then driving. When you were 16, did anything your parents say matter? Except knowing you'd be dead if you put a scratch on the car - that's what kept me clean!

The thing that kept me clean the most was the fact I lived for my license. I wasn't going to do anything to risk it. Walking just ain't cool. I try to reminder the younger crowd (especially those under 21) this very thing. If no other reason, don't rish having your license pulled.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com