A qusetion about racing at Pocono

[bgracing]

I've followed this post closely, anything to do with events interests me.

1st. Raymond, I believe that the trophies you are refering to were from a NARRC event two years ago run by NNJR, this post was started about a Tri-Region event ( totally different).

2nd. Mike Cefelo, If you feel this strongly please don't wait to be asked to help,
Volunteer!
Regional staff's are not mind readers they can't tell who is willing to help unless you give them a hint.

3rd. Terry, although the garages were rebuilt 5 years ago they are a far cry from being as nice as the ones at NHIS. They have no doors,no work benches, air is only availible at the last bay and for electrical service you get a cord hanging from the ceiling. when it rains and we all know that it will on any given weekend many of the new garages flood.

there are many more garages and padock space availible but unfortunatly the track staff will inform you "NASCAR" will not allow you to use it.
this is a familar answer from the track.

Timing and scoring has to be accomplished from a school bus parked at start finish, and the regions are not allowed to use the tracks timing loop, this frequently can cause delays.

The restraunt is at the opposite end of the paddock, the infield is moist, there are no showers for woman...

I could go on but this is probably not the reason you don't get attendance, Keep the entry price down. Give competitors a well opperated event with maximium track time and have a reason for being there (series points). and always remember the party is a thank you for the competitors and the volunteers, make it good!

Brian Mushnick

[RSTPerformance]

Brian-

I stand corrected... However my mistake is probably a worthy one to notice. I should know better however many others that race probably do not realize the different groups of people that run the events, and more so relate to a track and that it is SCCA (they don't pay as much attention to what region is putting it on other than to the point if they get points or not). So much negative feedback from going to a "track" is related to all the regions that race at the track. If the Tri Region puts on a better event I appologize for indicating it didn't. This error has given you more feedback though in realizing that other regions may be bringing your event down. I am sure that the other Pocono double ONLY gets more entries because it is part of the NARRC points series.

Raymond Blethen

PS: NHIS doesn't blame everything on NASCAR... why does the Glen and Pocono???

[sccaflagger74]

I've hesitated in posting because I'm not a driver (I'm F&C) and thus don't have a financial stake in the Pocono events. However, I would like to comment on the track employees. The guys in the Pocono trucks have flat out told me that we (SCCA) are nothing more than a nuisance to them. They view us as a problem and their attitude shows it. I also believe that the cowboys in the red Pocono trucks are going to kill someone before long based on the horrendous experiences I've had with them. What's a way to improve relations with the track? Truthfully, I don't care. I've had too many bad experiences at Pocono to ever go back. I work F&C as a hobby and don't need the amount of stress that I've had at that track. Rausch Creek can't open soon enough.

Bob Lindenmuth
Philly Region
Nat'l F&C

[theracinglawyer]

There have been thing said on this subject that need to be repeated over and over again if we are to "save" Pocono as a race site.

Get me the names of all the drivers in the last few years that did not get a throphy from a tri-region event.

The boys in the Pocono Red trucks get their additude from each other. They see "the Stock Car Experience" draw ton of people to that event day after day and don't have to deal with real racers. "The Stock Car Experience" gives you 16 laps on the Tri Oval for $960.00. Saying "Hello" to them never hurts. Every race and I have been only doing this for about 7 years the boys in the "Red Pocono Trucks" stops by to say "Hello". But I had to do it first and for many times before they would even respond let alone be friendly. Sometimes "we" Racers think people owe us something-- they don't. Pocono can tell us all to go home because the money they make on the two NASCAR RACES pays for the place for the whole year but its always nice to have the track open for other events like ours. And by the way the boys in the "Red Pocono Trucks" love to see the SCCA there. Said to me many times "beside the NASCAR boys your group are the only ones who race on this track". Maybe they like us and we don't know it.

We need to go to the Mini Convention and fight for some changes in the dated of our races. There are a lot of National Drivers who would love to race in the early enduro and the one in June but conflicts take us out of that.More entries =More Money.

For whatever reason the Corvette club of Northeast Pa get more than a Scca Regional event as does the Cumberland county Corvette club, and the Porsche and the BMW clubs and on and on.We need to find out why. Probably more Track time?Sombody should talk to those groups and see why they got to Pocono

The Regional events must be more organized easier registration and I am not saying it bad at Pocono. The Qualifying must be on time as should the races be within reason.

My reputation speaks for itself if you want help and I think I can get done what you want then all one has to do is ask.I learned a long time ago there are a lot of things I am not very good at.

Love "the commander" Mike Cefalo


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Mike cefalo "the commander"

[RKramden]

The one thing that has not been mentioned in all this is that this year the regional event runs against the MoHud race at Lime Rock.

Running two regionals at tracks that are only about 150 miles apart seems to be a great formula for diaster for both.

[tdw6974]

This Year there is a conflict with the F-1 Race running the Same weekend.

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Tom Weaver: Logistics & Technical Support Manager IE truck driver for 1980 RX-7 ITA #63
"Hemi haulin' Rotary"

[RKramden]

Much more important than the F-1 race (but less than the other regional) is the National at Beaver Run the same weekend.

[theracinglawyer]

Beaver Run National June 19-20

Pocono Double Regional June 19-20

That Really is a Blunder when you are trying to increase entries.

Maybe at the Mini Convention we can help each other with dates.


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Mike cefalo "the commander"

[tdw6974]

Also looks Like a Regional Mo Hud June 19th at Limerock just to make it tougher.

[theracinglawyer]

One thought that all should consider about Pocono.

Since you are competing with other tracks for racers put on a weekend enduro. Yes a weekend enduro.that will make it a unique event, something that is desperately needed to get people to come to lonely Pocono when they have so many other choices.

If the open wheelers don't like it too bad they will have to get their own event

Take a chapter from the book of the washington D C region. The 12 hours at the point is a $700.00 entry fee for the 55. or so teams that are allowed. The field was sold out in less than 1 Hour-get it one Hour.

Think how many cars can fit on Pocono's track and then do the Math.

Make it different and they will come.

Something to think about!!!!!!!!!



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Love "the commander"
Mike Cefalo
BE SAFE GO FAST HAVE FUN

[dominojd]

Just to add alittle fuel to the fire. From my understanding there will not be an SCCA regional at Pocono for these dates. A local HPDS has bought those dates from tri region. So that means only one regional at Pocono this year.
Even though I have a slow ITS 4 banger I still like that place. Plus being only 45 min from home helps too.

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Crazy Joe
#7 ITS pilot

[benspeed]

Crazy Joe - tell me it ain't so! I already had my two dates for Pocono on the calendar.

I think the "commander" is right - better make something special or the dates will drift through our fingers. Not to mention Pocono is only about an hour and ten for me. Everyting else is three or more. Joe - you going to the NNJR club meeting at the exchange?

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
NNJR

[dominojd]

Originally posted by benspeed:
Crazy Joe - tell me it ain't so! I already had my two dates for Pocono on the calendar.

Joe - you going to the NNJR club meeting at the exchange?

Yes it is so. Unfortunately.

Where is it, when is it, and what is it?



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Crazy Joe
#7 ITS pilot

[benspeed]

I have May 15-16 which is the NAARC race and June 19-20 was the NYSRRC/Tri-Region race.

Looks like May is the only race. What a shame to lose the date.

The NNJR meeting will be at the Exchange Restaurant in Rockaway NJ - the meeting is every 3rd Tuesday around 8:00 PM - good eats & beers.

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
NNJR

[This message has been edited by benspeed (edited February 06, 2004).]

[theracinglawyer]

Dear Ed. I went back to the beginning of this post and see a lot of suggestions, and not a single response from you.

Where are you?

Now I see that you sold, Gave away, bartered, the date of the Regional Event at Pocono in June. Why would you do that in the time you asked for suggestions and got a ton of great ideas(mine excluded)and then just threw in the towel?

My DAD ALWAYS WARNED ME ABOUT PEOPLE WHO GET TO POSITIONS OF LEADERSHIP AND CAN'T LEAD.usually they lead their troops into battle and don't know what to do and as a result they lose their men to the enemy.

You may have lost a whole lot more, respect that is hard to replace.

At least have the courage to tell your men the true story if in fact you gave away the Pocono dates.


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Love "the commander"
Mike Cefalo
BE SAFE GO FAST HAVE FUN

[dickita15]

well mike, it a wonder that anyone takes on a job like race chair when folks like you brand them as lacking courage. I have no knowledge as to the final decision, other than what i have read here, to sublet the date but when the date was first announced the region managment did not know if it would run. the date they had hoped for was the next weekend. the 6/19-20 weekend being against a narrc at lime rock. Tri region knew it would be very hard to pull this off. subleting the date allows them to retain a date for the future while not running an event this year that could damage the finacial heath of the regions. it is unfortunate that pocono does not have a large driver base of it's own and a regional there does not pay for itself unless it is a narrc or marrs race. Ed owes you nothing and you owe him an apology.
dick patullo
meb # 96265
ner scca

[theracinglawyer]

Dear Paul,

I admire you for defending the originator of this post but now more than ever I would,like most who read this post to hear from him, unless of course he want's to exercise his fifth Amendment right against self incrimination.

We would like to know the real story after all he started this post and asked for suggestions for more people to come to Pocono. For the record My son Marc and I decided to forgo a National Event to come and support Pocono, at the expense of valuable poins which we need. Marc so he can repeat as The Northeast Division Champion in SSB and Me so I can at least qualify for the "Runoffs". Call that what you want but that needs no apology, after all we want to help. If the Leaders of this club (and for the record Leaders owe it's members leadership)have the Brass to make it a Enduro weekend you'll be asking for a waiver to put more cars on the track because they will be knocking the doors down to get in.

Read my original post and you will see I OFFERED TO GET THE PLACE GOING, ALL ONE HAS TO DO IS ASK.

35 PEOPLE REPLIED TO THIS POST THAT'S MORE THAN ANY OTHER, READ THAT ANYWAY YOU WANT BUT IT SHOWS INTEREST.

PAUL I NEVER SAID HE LACKED COURAGE-- YOU DID-- ALL I SAID WAS " at least have the courage to tell your men the true story if in fact you gave away the Pocono date"

I choose my words very, very carefully.

My purpose was not to do anything but to get the leader of this post, the Chairman of the Tri Region to respond to a question.

Did he give the Pocono date away and when and why?


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Love "the commander"
Mike Cefalo
BE SAFE GO FAST HAVE FUN

[ITSRX7]

First of all, why don't you two get your own seperate Usernames? I can't tell who is writing and when.

As far as you chosing your words "very, very carfully", it DOES NOT appear that way. If you wanted to know what the story was behind the date getting let go, you could have just stated that. Instead you come off like you are on the attack - WITHOUT knowing the facts. You would think someone who calls himself the 'racing lawer' would get the facts, THEN demand accountability.

Dick (not Paul - you sould READ carefully too), was right on the money with his reply. Ask first, blame later. IF you didn't intend to blame first, read your post out loud to yourself with the inflection you imposed with CAPS. Ease up.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by theracinglawyer:
Dear Paul,

Who the hell is Paul ????

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\"> .....have the Brass to make it a Enduro weekend you'll be asking for a waiver to put more cars on the track because they will be knocking the doors down to get in. </font>

A guess at best. I for one, will NOT be there that weekend, regional, enduro or whatever.

Keep in mind that enduro financials are different as well. Less drivers means higher entry fees. If the fee is too high, the drivers don't materialize, and the region takes a loss. If the fee is too low, they can't break even. With the other regions events occuring the same weekend, any regional or enduro would be a risk, at best, and more likely a folly.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\"> 35 PEOPLE REPLIED TO THIS POST THAT'S MORE THAN ANY OTHER, READ THAT ANYWAY YOU WANT BUT IT SHOWS INTEREST. </font>

INTEREST DOESN'T PAY THE BILLS!!! Why am I shouting??

PAUL I NEVER SAID HE LACKED COURAGE-- YOU DID-- ALL I SAID WAS " at least have the courage to ...."
I choose my words very, very carefully.

Again, who is this Paul guy??

C'mon...what are we idiots??? A bunch of lawyer speak there! The logical conclusion, and I can't believe I have to spell it out, is that you are telling him to have the courage to do something, and you have charged him with no response. Not a big jump to see that you feel he's lacking ....

In short, an update here would have been a nice courtesy, but he certainly is under no obligation to do so. He posted a question, got some answers and that's that.

You have said you were going to change your plans, now you can change them back. No harm no foul. What's the big deal?

Anybody seen a Paul in here?

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited February 07, 2004).]

[theracinglawyer]

Looks like we will lose Pocono altogether as a SCCA site, call me toll free and I'll explain because writing doesn't seem to work.



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Love "the commander"
Mike Cefalo
BE SAFE GO FAST HAVE FUN