The Lawyers Win Again

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by theracinglawyer:
Tom


All Lawyers are not the ones you read about, Greedy,Selfish,unethical. There a lot of great Lawyers you just have to look for them.

You know Mike...of all the words you've written here, these are by far the best.

It's too bad that the industry has...."issues", shall we say.

One of my most respected father figures is a lawyer, albeit not a rich one...



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Steve Ostrovitz]

Well said, Mike.

Just so you know, I was being facetious when I was talking about shredding the Constitution. Our words and stories won't convince the unconvincable, at least not in an Internet forum.

My practice is also litigation based, with a good number of clients coming from the racing ranks, like the autocrosser I just represented who was out of work from his warehouse job for three months after being injured by a hit and run drunk driver. (later arrested and convicted) Or the 19 year old college student I just settled a case for. Kid was opening the driver's door for his girlfriend and was hit by a 3rd offesne drunk driver, thrown 35 feet and left for dead. Knee trouble and visible permanent scars everywhere, but worst of all he had to have a few dozen stitches on that most private of all male places. Neither of these people could afford to hire a plumber, let alone a decent attorney, if they had to pay by the hour.

Steve

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Steve Ostrovitz:
........Neither of these people could afford to hire a plumber, let alone a decent attorney, if they had to pay by the hour.

Steve

Steve...you clearly haven't tried to hire a plumber lately I see! Just getting a call back will cost you!

Ok, I'm being facetious....(Had to use that word now that you've spelled it for me!) ....but it IS a great trade from a $ perspective...although, I imagine it stinks some days more than others...



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[anthony1k]

Pro Rallying under SCCA has been hanging by a thread for years. Finally SCCA has decided to divest from a money loosing activity. The most fundamental problem facing the sport in my opinion is the lack of robust regional series across the country. If rallying is to survive and flourish the new sanctioning body must be creative in ways that will encourage grassroots participation similar to regional road racing.

As far as the argument that somehow lawyers are responsible for all of society’s ills, I just don’t buy it. Corporations and particularly insurance companies are pushing hard for tort reform only out of self-interest. This will translates to lower liability exposure for them but nothing in return for the rest of us. They have also done a masterful job in convincing the American public that all of our problems, including the high cost of medical care, will be somehow solved only if our right to sue in court was taken away or at least severely curtailed. By the way, coffee is supposed to be hot but not so hot as to cause third-degree burns to over 6 percent of someone’s body as it were the case in the infamous McDonald’s lawsuit.

[anthony1k]

Pro Rallying under SCCA has been hanging by a thread for years. Finally SCCA has decided to divest from a money loosing activity. The most fundamental problem facing the sport in my opinion is the lack of robust regional series across the country. If rallying is to survive and flourish the new sanctioning body must be creative in ways that will encourage grassroots participation similar to regional road racing.

As far as the argument that somehow lawyers are responsible for all of society’s ills, I just don’t buy it. Corporations and particularly insurance companies are pushing hard for tort reform only out of self-interest. This will translates to lower liability exposure for them but nothing in return for the rest of us. They have also done a masterful job in convincing the American public that all of our problems, including the high cost of medical care, will be somehow solved only if our right to sue in court was taken away or at least severely curtailed. By the way, coffee is supposed to be hot but not so hot as to cause third-degree burns to over 6 percent of someone’s body as it were the case in the infamous McDonald’s lawsuit.

[Tom Blaney]

Originally posted by anthony1k:
By the way, coffee is supposed to be hot but not so hot as to cause third-degree burns to over 6 percent of someone’s body as it were the case in the infamous McDonald’s lawsuit.

There's a perfect example of excess, the woman spilled the coffee on herself. The counter person didn't spill it, so when do people take responsibility for their own actions. How about the fool that puts the ladder up in a precarious manner in spite of the warning labels and falls of and breaks his butt. Was it the fault of the manufacturer that that dope misused the product. Does that justify the dope and their lawyers getting millions of dollars for acting improperly.

I hear the plea's about the drunk driver, and perhaps some of them are valid, but the legal profession seems to bring up those cases when the halls of justice are filled with judgements where the individual should take responsibility for themselves and that the lawyers should take the high road and not make a gold mine out of a mole hill.

[gsbaker]

Loser pays, or a bond version of same, solves the abuse problem.

Gregg

[anthony1k]

Tom,
My point is that what gets reported in the media is slanted and often just plain wrong. The McDonalds case was the perfect example. Here are the fact of this case if you're interested. http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
Anthony

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by anthony1k:
Tom,
My point is that what gets reported in the media is slanted and often just plain wrong. The McDonalds case was the perfect example. Here are the fact of this case if you're interested. http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
Anthony

I hope that Stella Liebeck and her lawyers feel awefull about this terrible abuse to our criminal system. I can't beleive people try to do that crap! She is the idiot certainly not McDonalds. I agree with Tom, People need to take responsiblity for there actions. Hopefully lawyers like this will suffer at some point for there unethical greed. I could understand a hospital bill being paid for and that is it. I never have understood the punitive damagaes. Why would she deserve them. If she deserved anything it would have been her 3 or 4 days of lost work if she actually had a job. $20,000 for medical seems like the doctor was probably a scam as well.

Stephen

I do think Lawyers should be on a % if they win but it should be capped so that they do not earn more than 1500 per week on a case. This would hopefully keep the outragiuos unethical suits to a minuimum.

[sccaflagger74]

I also thought that Stella was the moron in the McDonalds case until I read the facts about it several years ago after arguing with someone about it. There is no reason for coffee to be so hot that it causes 3rd degree burns. They knew it was too hot, had over 700 reports of burns due to the coffee but still did nothing about it.

The more I read the more I am against any plan to legally limit settlement amounts.

Regards,

Bob Lindenmuth
F&C guy
-not a lawyer
-but my sister is a law librarian!
-and I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once

edited to fix spelling

[This message has been edited by sccaflagger74 (edited October 12, 2004).]

[Tom Blaney]

Originally posted by anthony1k:
Tom,
My point is that what gets reported in the media is slanted and often just plain wrong. The McDonalds case was the perfect example. Here are the fact of this case if you're interested. http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm
Anthony

Ok I just read the journal, and it still comes down to personal responsiblity doesn't it. The 78 year old woman had the cup between her knees so she can add condiments. McDonald's didn't tell her to do that, the driver hits the brakes so she can add the condiments, MickieD didn't tell him to do that either. She was wearing sweat pants that would absorb liquids, again not MickieD. A reminder on the coffee cup versus a warning. The woman was 78 do you think she never had a hot cup of coffee before or burned herself on the stove....

As before the dope falls off the ladder because of his stupidity, the woman is riding in a moving car with a cup of hot coffee between her knees because of her stupidity. Not because I want my coffee hot when I get to drink it at work sitting at a desk, list most intelligent people.

Frivilous misuse of the US Constitution.

[Steve Ostrovitz]

Jake, last time I had my plumber out to the house to give an estimate on something he showed up after hours in his brand new Jag wearing what I guess had to be a $2000 suit. I definately went into the wrong business.

About the McDonald's case: How anyone can read the *facts* and come away with the conclusion that it was mostly her own damn fault (which, by the way, the jury agreed she was 20% responsible anyway) escapes me. I mean, did you really *read* what happened? 700 complants. Admissions all around that beverages that hot were *dangerous*. Clear evidence the defendant knew all of this but still acted negligently. etc... Personal responsibilty? Absolutely. The jury spoke on that. How about corporate responsibilty? The woman was burned on her inner thighs and genitalia. No reasonable person who ever put a hot drink between their legs would expect to suffer debilitating burns if it spilled. But 700 prior warnings didn't seem to be enough for McD's that trouble was, as it seems, ...brewing.

Putting political issues aside, chew on this:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/...0.mencimer.html

The American system of justice is not perfect, but its far and away the best in the world. It's like any endevour run by human beings: flawed. But at over 200 years old and still evolving, its the oldest continuous modern legal system in the world. As an attorney and college professor I've studied them all in depth: The French inquisatorial system, The Chinese socialist legal system, and Shari'a, as used in Saudi Arabia to name a few. You'd be sick if you saw how they handled such things, never mind *criminal* law. I hope none of you ever end up in an attorney's office because a tragedy has befallen you or a loved one becuase they were harmed by another. But God forbid it does, I doubt you'll have a crisis of conscience about whether or not seeking civilized relief from the courts is wrong.

Now, I'm going back under the hood of my truck. If I screw that up, I suppose I can sue myself

Steve

[JohnRW]

http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/cat_p...onsibility.html

[JohnRW]

http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/cat_product.html

[joeg]

Steve--Is the Shari'a the "blood money equivalent" for the "eye for an eye" deal?

My sister and brother-in-law worked there for over a decade and their stories about accidents and dispute resolutions are amazing.

[ITZ34]

I hope Mike and Steve aren't on the clock billing a client while they're on this site during office hours.

Dave Ciufo

[SamITC85]

Just to set the record straight I was using the McDonalds, case as an example(I guess not a good one) What I was trying to say is that there are good lawyers and bad lawyers, and unfortunatley the bad lawyers are the ones who make the names for the good ones. The same could probably said for any profession. Like someone said you just need to go out and find the good ones.

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Sam Rolfe
TBR Motorsports
#85 ITC VW Rabbit being converted to LPHP
#85 GP Scirocco

[therooster]

"Stephen, I do think Lawyers should be on a % if they win but it should be capped so that they do not earn more than 1500 per week on a case. This would hopefully keep the outragiuos unethical suits to a minuimum. :"

Stephen, come to a court and watch what happens. If you say $1500 per week(less than a good attorney in the Boston area by the way), they would continue the case for ever, as there is no incentive to settle the suit. Especially if the lawyer is really bad. As for the %, this encourages them to get as much as they can as quick as they can.

BTW: Have you ever been envolved in a civil suit? It is so much worse then a criminal procedure. It take much longer and all of your propery is at stake, instead of your liberty.

PS I am not an attorney, just someone who works everyday in a court and has an interest.

Chris

[therooster]

Burp

[This message has been edited by therooster (edited October 12, 2004).]

[therooster]

Double Post