NHIS Results ???

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by itracer:

One thing that has not been mentioned (unless I was the only one to see it) is that the starter DID have their finger up for one to go on the PREVIOUS lap.

There is more than one way to indicate a green track

~Jason

Jason,

I think we are all trying to learn here so let's continue the good discussion:

I did see the one to go. If we are to assume the track IS green when the one to go comes out AND the pace car moves off the track, should I start racing right from the beginning of 12?

Does the starter then have no authority to waive off a re-start?

I see nothing in the 2004 GCR (sec 7.3) that tells of any other method of a track going green other than the green flag - you may be able to indicate that the track IS green but not that the track HAS GONE green. You guys did nothing wrong IMHO.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited April 20, 2004).]

[RKramden]

Originally posted by dickita15:
uh I don't think I have ever seen a wave off on a single file restart.

I've done it once (waved off a restart) in the last 15 years. However, it was because of other things going on on the track, not the condition of the pack.

I've also seen it done at Lime Rock when the Pace Car crashed on the front straight just before false grid, and ended up stuck up on the side of the bank in an impact area.

[This message has been edited by RKramden (edited April 20, 2004).]

[RKramden]

Originally posted by itracer:
Devil’s advocate here:
Scenario #1:
What happens if the starter is waving the flag with so much enthusiasm that they loose the flag from there hands? They are not going to stop the race for that.

This has happened at Lime Rock. No, the race was not stopped.

I have also seen the starter grab the wrong flag and start a race with a blue flag. :-)

Scenario #2: Pace car picks up the wrong car as the lead and waves them (more than one) by late in the pace lap, the green flag is thrown while they are still only 1/2-3/4 around the track. Flags drop, they race (green track).

Never seen nor heard of that happening, ever.
In the one case I know of where the pace car did mess up, it was known almost instantly and corrected before the restart.

[This message has been edited by RKramden (edited April 20, 2004).]

[67ITB]

Great discussion guy’s. Sounds like a learning experience for all involved.
Would anyone be able to post the ITB results?

Thanks
Matt Bal,

[ITSRX7]

I will also state this:

None of the drivers I knew of were mad and I am glad the officials took the time to re-grid in the interest of fair-play. The grid guys and girls did a great job as well.

AB

[dickita15]

Originally posted by ITSRX7:
I don't know about intent but the starter only has a few things to do - and the process of choosing to wave the green flag or not IS THE BIGGEST ONE.

Uh, no disrespect Andy, but that could not be further from the truth. Look up multitasking in the dictionary and you will see a picture of a SCCA starter. from everthing i have learned about the incident there were 2 mistakes made, hey stuff happens. we will all live. non of the drivers in my opinion made any mistake, some just recognized the bizzare siruation and capitalized on it. had the tower not decided to regrid jason and raymond would be hero's. they lost nothing by trying.
dick

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...but that could not be further from the truth.</font>

OK Dick, I'll bite: if the primary job of the Chief Starter is not to start the race, then what is?

[RKramden]

To all the NER folks,

I'm the chief starter for the National at NHIS in two weeks. If any of you want to visit the starters stand for a race, let me know, and I can make it happen. Then, you can see for yourself what it is all about.

(First 4 respondents only, please.)

[gran racing]

I'm really glad everyone was o.k. Those car pics don't look so good.

As for the flagging, I'm still a bit confused. Say on a start (not restart) the starter doesn't waive the green flag. If you get to station one and there is no yellow, do you assume it is green? And I thought that you couldn't start passing till the green was shown. Am I wrong here? If not, wouldn't the same theory apply in the NHIS situation?

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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[dickita15]

Originally posted by grega:
OK Dick, I'll bite: if the primary job of the Chief Starter is not to start the race, then what is?

greg, don't change my words. what andy said was "the starter has only a few things to do" and I think that oversimplifies it. we (the workers running the race) made a couple of mistakes and i want to thank all the drivers in that group for being so good about it.
by the way if you were only 1 second off anthony's time that puts you a half a second faster than anyone else in ITA. you should probably start collecting lead. I know if matt was up for the race it would have been worth a second
dick

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by dickita15:
Uh, no disrespect Andy, but that could not be further from the truth. Look up multitasking in the dictionary and you will see a picture of a SCCA starter. from everthing i have learned about the incident there were 2 mistakes made, hey stuff happens. we will all live. non of the drivers in my opinion made any mistake, some just recognized the bizzare siruation and capitalized on it. had the tower not decided to regrid jason and raymond would be hero's. they lost nothing by trying.
dick

Dick,

No disrespect taken! We are all trying to learn.

Notice I said 'the process of throwing the green'. We know that there is a multitude of actions/decisions that go into the decision to start a race.

I guess to close this out, can we agree that even if the starter communicated to the corner workers that the track was goiung green, it isn't green until we see the flag? I think everyone did the right thing including regridding when the course was not indicated green and the front indicated a waive off.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...I think that oversimplifies it...</font>

Fair enough (I wasn't trying to be flippant.)

I'd love to take "Ralph" up on his offer, though how about at an upcoming Regional, say LRP? I'm going to be helping out with instructing in three weeks, but if the offer stands (pun intended) I'd like to spend some time at S/F (I used to have Natl F&C and T&S licenses, never made it "up there"...)

...you should probably start collecting lead. I know if matt was up for the race it would have been worth a second
dick

DOH! Hey, he did such a super job setting it up beforehand that I told him he would have been bored all weekend with nothing to do. All *I* had to do was jump in and drive the damn thing...


[This message has been edited by grega (edited April 20, 2004).]

[RSTPerformance]

I cannot say that if the situation happened again I wouldn't take advantage of it. I think that the actions of the cars that took advantage of the situation are what influenced control to throw the black flag and fix the problem. I agree with how the situation was handled, even though I probably had the worst outcome.

Other things to notice... In the supps there was no regulation to race length, our race was 48 minutes long. I think that whoever noticed this wasn't in the supps and prevented an early checkered deserves a hand. I bet a lot of people expected it to end at 30 minutes.

Also the other thing that this incident did show was how important we depend on our VOLUNTEER corner workers. Like everything else our faults usually show more than our positives, but I would like everyone to take a minute to realize how important they are to providing us a safe place to race.

Thank you;

Raymond

[RKramden]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Other things to notice... In the supps there was no regulation to race length, our race was 48 minutes long. I think that whoever noticed this wasn't in the supps and prevented an early checkered deserves a hand. I bet a lot of people expected it to end at 30 minutes.

No time limit is the normal case, but because of tracks with very limited time (Lime Rock) we have become used to having a time limit. This point was questioned on the stewards radio net just before the start of the races, and confirmed that there was no time limit. The question was answered before the race started, and most of the workers were on the same page.

On races with a time limit, watching the clocks and figuring out on-the-fly if the race will end based on time or laps and getting the "1" board out at the right time is yet another thing that the starter does.

[This message has been edited by RKramden (edited April 20, 2004).]

[racerdrew43]

What happened in the ITC race? Results?
Thanks

[MK]

Originally posted by dominojd:
Greg 5th place not bad. You better start laying back or they won't drop us to ITA next year.

I TOLD him he shouldn't use the "X" button 'till NEXT year. Dammit.

[16v]

Originally posted by racerdrew43:
What happened in the ITC race? Results?
Thanks

Jeff won by 2laps ;-)


Tim K had a problem, I believe Fred won, with Mini Megliola taking second



------------------
Doug
NER.org
the16v.com
briansgarage.com

[moto62]

Originally posted by 16v:
Jeff won by 2laps ;-)


Tim K had a problem, I believe Fred won, with Mini Megliola taking second

I believe the ITC winner was Chris (big) Johnson in his ford Escort.

Original post from Ray B.
Boring ITA race IMO, best thing was seing Dan in the Miata keeping the rest of the Integras less than a half a lap ahead of the real I mean rest of the ITA cars

Yeah! But that only lasted for the first four laps.
Ray

[R RACER]

What is a real ITA car? please explain CLEARLY Raymond when you make a post. Seems like there were a few Integra's in the 16's this weekend, I think you should expect times to drop at all the tracks this year with the new 04's,I just have a few more miles on them , since I had them since Oct of last year.They seem to compliment my car's setup very well, and the other drivers I have spoken seem to agree. Did you have them this weekend? If you would like a used set I would be happy to give you some at lrp, the set I was on this weekend were the ones I ran on the arrc last year, but I'm sure you can get some more time out of them.Email me off line if you would like them. It was great to see everyone after the long winter. Sorry to see a few guys have some early car rebuilding to do already.

------------------
Anthony Serra ITA 99

[RSTPerformance]

A couple things.... This will be long!

Clarification on what was suppossed to be a wave off:
The starter wanted a wave off because tow trucks and ambulances where still on the track in turn 4 and in 9 repositioning themselves while the lead ITS cars came down the front straight. The starter was not looking at the field in aww. They where looking at the emergency vehicles still on the track. Control did say 1 lap to green and the signal for one lap was givin. The problem came about because normally start or control would signal green flag on the radios. They did not however they also did not say it was a wave off so because the pace car left the track and the previous time by control said 1 lap to green all corner stations assumed that it did go to green. The started decided it was unsafe for a green after the pace car left the front straight for the safety of the safety crews. Good decision, just some confusion with the comunication.

What I would have done:
From my position I would not have gone since no one else was and the field was "not racing". If I was a backmarker I would have gone, however a little more slowly. I was split by Raymond and Jason going into three. They where probably doing 80+ and I was doing 20 in third litteraly swerving warming up my tires. I happen to turn opposite directions when they flew by. I feel as though they and others probably wanted to take full advantage but at the same time made poor decisions to drive so aggresivly. Noone at the front had any idea they where charging up through. They and others took some risks to get to the front and I'm glad in the end it all worked out.

ITS looks like it will be the NER toughest competion class of the year... lots of very fast cars!

ITA Will be interesting as well. ANthony is blistering fast. I for one think that that car is hooked up and handles awsome... I was watching in 3 and one reason anthony is faster is because he is on the gas way sooner than anyone. He is on the gas and probably flat befoer the apex and the thing sticks and goes with little tire spin. You can see a little blue from the tires every few laps but WOW, that car cna handle. Hopefully Jeremy will rebuild and stay up with him. It will be interesting to see what happens at LRP since that track is more momentum than HP/tourque.

ITB Well our feild should be good since we have lot's of new drivers and several drivers that have had the same cars for a few years so they are finally getting fast! I think at least 10 cars have a chance at the championship. I hope that Jeff L, Jeff B, Alan, Paul, and Nat all get there cars fixed soon so I can try and stay up with them the rest of the season... Godd luck guys. 5 Super fast ITB cars DNF in the first race of the year! I hope that trend doesn't continue!

ITC This class only had 4 cars but probably hands down the best race. in the end it was 3 cars battling out and Brian M I'm sure learned a ton in his first IT race. They all where passing several times a lap and never ended up more than a few seconds apart. this is a class that with one mess up you will go from first to last very quickly! If anyone gets a chance watch them it was very enjoyable!

Stephen