NHIS Results ???

[VWGal]

Thanks for the photos, Raymond. I was out of town with the kids (thank god, they would have flipped out had we been there) so I only heard about the incident when I spoke to Jeff last night. THe car doesn't look nearly as bad as I imagined. It won't be fixed for the May event at LRP but we will definitely have it ready for the PIG.

betsey

[Tim]

Jeff or anyone who is in touch with him, call me, I have two A1 front fenders if you need them. one brand new, light, the other used oem. FREE

tim 203 253 2249

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by RSTPerformance:
Andy-

We (the back markers) didn't cause a wave off...
Raymond

Ray,

Didn't mean to infer that your group CAUSED it, just letting you know what I was thinking at the time while I was wondering why the green didn't get thrown. The line was straight and pretty tight.

Bottom line, should have been a wave off.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited April 19, 2004).]

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by itracer:

I was curious as to what the rules say, so last night I poured over the GCR when I got home. I can’t quote it because it is at home, but I feel that there is a really grey area here. The GCR said that the course shall be full course Yellow. I’ll leave it to the rules nerds to sort this out, but I still believe that, due to the green course, we (Raymond and myself) were correct in our drive to the front.

Maybe we should debate this so we can all learn.

I submit the course is not green until the green flag is displayed - not when a corner drops the double yellow. It may be commonly accepted that when the corners drop the double yellow that the course WILL GO green but it can't be green until the starter shows the flag. Right?

I was on pit wall for 2 of the 3 run groups during the school all weekend. Seems as if this same thing was demonstrated by White and Sheppard...they bolted from the back without a green in their run groups.....the field was supposed to stay frozen. Isn't this the same situation?

Again, the lack of wave off created the confusion - no blame - just theoretical debate at this point.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[benspeed]

I'm no expert, but my thinking is that when the pace car comes out, the green must be shown at start/finish before racing commences. Otherwise it's a waive off. If it's a full course yellow and no pace car, the track goes green once the flags come down, no?

This is a good topic to debate.

Cheers,

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BenSpeed
#33 ITS RX7
BigSpeed Racing
[email protected]
NNJR

[dominojd]

Originally posted by grega:
IIRC,
- Jeff Henderson (BMW)
- Nick Leverone (Mazda)
- Robert Driscoll (BMW)
- Ben Philips (Mazda)
- Greg Amy (Nissan)
- Ed Tisdale (BMW)
- and the rest...

Greg 5th place not bad. You better start laying back or they won't drop us to ITA next year.



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Crazy Joe
#7 ITS pilot

[itracer]

Originally posted by ITSRX7:
I was on pit wall for 2 of the 3 run groups during the school all weekend. Seems as if this same thing was demonstrated by White and Sheppard...they bolted from the back without a green in their run groups.....the field was supposed to stay frozen. Isn't this the same situation?

It was a school and they (as instructors) did it on purpose to see if anyone followed them... they did.

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Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)
VW Scirocco

[tims90rx7]

I was in about 12-14 position on the 'restart'. From my position there was no waveoff, nor did I see any hands being raised by those in front indicating that there was one. Everyone seemed to be at neutral speed until 3 where the corner workers were frantically waving arms to speed up. My first thought was that, in fact, the course was green. (it was about that time that cars started screaming by us) By 5 the black flag was out.

As this is my first time back racing in a couple of years I will leave the debate to those who have more relavent experience then I. It would seem prudent that on a restart, as this was, that a green flag from the starter take precident over corner stations to signal that the track is green.

I am glad that everyone involved in the accidents are fine. It makes my wife very happy that the safety features in place allow for those involved to climb out and shake hands.

I had a great weekend and am looking for to Lime Rock.

Tim Estes
#73 ITS

[MMiskoe]

From a back marker view, the start deserved a wave off, I started on the throttle at 11 in order to keep up even though the flags were still up.

All weekend in the school it was explained that the course is open for passing UNLESS there is a yellow. I was one of the guys screaming into 3, glad it worked out as well as it did, it certainly had disaster written all over it. A worker at turn 2 might have helped.

No green - lift
No yellow at 1 - flat
Look ahead & see everyone is in line - lift
Get passed by 2 or 3 ITB guys & see turn 3 waving arms - Flat & stayed flat until 5.

Glad it came out as well as it did, three bashed cars is no fun, but three guys walking away is what counts.

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...better start laying back or they won't drop us to ITA next year...</font>

No worries: my best lap was still 2 secs slower than the Flatout boys, and 1 sec per lap slower than Anthony's qually laps (how did ITA come out?).

It would have been a hell of an ITA battle, though (heck, it was a fun battle for ITS 4-5-6!) - GA

[RSTPerformance]

and Anthony was only 2 seconds faster than the rest of the ITA field!!!

Boring ITA race IMO, best thing was seing Dan in the Miata keeping the rest of the Integras less than a half a lap ahead of the real I mean rest of the ITA cars

Actually the great race in the ITA/ITC race was ITC, all the ITC cars were ducking it out... looks to me like that will be a hard championship to win this year... good luck

Raymond

[Trish]

I wish you guys could have heard the corner workers in 3 during that incident. They were yelling at you all to race then when you got the black flag all, Dave Hottle was explaining that the starter was a newbie with no experienced worker helping or guiding. One of you mentioned in a post that the starter just looked in AWE of all the ITS and ITB cars. Well, you ARE an impressive field. Great racing!

[RKramden]

Originally posted by Trish:
They were yelling at you all to race then when you got the black flag all, Dave Hottle was explaining that the starter was a newbie with no experienced worker helping or guiding.

Dave Hottle has his opinions, but in this case, they are wrong. The starter has been working start for over a year, and is not a "newbie" as you put it.

[This message has been edited by RKramden (edited April 20, 2004).]

[JLawton]

Besides the confusion on the restart, I was impressed with how fast they got the wreck cleaned up (glad no one was hurt!!) and grid got us sorted out. They did a great job. Overall, I think the day was well run.

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Jeff L
#74 ITB GTi

[dickita15]

Originally posted by MMiskoe:
From a back marker view, the start deserved a wave off.

uh I don't think I have ever seen a wave off on a single file restart.

mistakes were made on the restart and i guess black flagging and regridding was the right call but from a drivers point of view what are the rules you have to comply with. you can not pass the pace car unless waived by but the pace car was off the course. you can not pass under a yellow but the yellows were dropped. my review of the gcr indicated that a green is may be a mandatory part of restarting but there was no condition to prevent the drivers from racing so, and i hate to say this but, young mr blethen was the brightest guy out there at that moment.
dick patullo

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...young mr blethen was the brightest guy out there at that moment...</font>

Dick, I know that was a hard thing to say; you are a man of great courage. We'll go through liquid therapy soon to help you ease the pain...

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by Trish:
I wish you guys could have heard the corner workers in 3 during that incident. They were yelling at you all to race...

We did see these workers telling us to get going...but since there was NO GREEN FLAG, we (at least Nick and I) thought we were just being told to speed up to catch the pace car and not waste anymore time.

I am curious why the workers would think it was green when the green hadn't dropped. So not only did the starter not waive us off but they didn't tell the corners the track wasn't hot...right?

Chaulk it up to some first race rust and look forward to LRP where I will be in the middle of the grid...

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[dickita15]

Originally posted by ITSRX7:
[B] I am curious why the workers would think it was green when the green hadn't dropped. So not only did the starter not waive us off but they didn't tell the corners the track wasn't hot...right?
B]

andy
my understanding is that every thing that should of happened on a restart happened except the green flag being waved. the pace car pulled of the stations were told to drop thier yellows just the starter did not waive the flag, i do not belive the intent was every to waive it off although in the car you could not know that, exept when have you ever seen a waive off on a single file restart.
dick

[ITSRX7]

I don't know about intent but the starter only has a few things to do - and the process of choosing to wave the green flag or not IS THE BIGGEST ONE.

If I had bolted from 10 and had a 10 car length lead coming out of 12 onto the straight, I would have assumed a wave-off would have followed. Just because we have never seen this happen doesn't mean it can't, Right?

Gotta have a green flag. If the track was green, then they wouldn't have brought us back in...

No drivers did anything out of the ordinary, confusion ensued and the Region did what it needed to do to get it straightened out IMHO. Having heard all the sides of the story, it would seem that the miscues came from the starter stand exclusively. If someone wants to debate that the front of the pack or rear of the pack did anything wrong, we should - so we the drivers can get it right in the future.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[itracer]

Devil’s advocate here:
Scenario #1:
What happens if the starter is waving the flag with so much enthusiasm that they loose the flag from there hands? They are not going to stop the race for that.

One thing that has not been mentioned (unless I was the only one to see it) is that the starter DID have their finger up for one to go on the PREVIOUS lap.

There is more than one way to indicate a green track.

Scenario #2: Pace car picks up the wrong car as the lead and waves them (more than one) by late in the pace lap, the green flag is thrown while they are still only 1/2-3/4 around the track. Flags drop, they race (green track).

I know that if it happens again (which I doubt it will), it will be more than Raymond and myself charging for the front.

~Jason
Who took the lead in an ITB race for the first time in his career! (But the race results don’t show it)


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Jason
ITB 17 (NER SCCA)
VW Scirocco