September Fastrack...

[Fastfred92]

[quote]Originally posted by ddewhurst:
[B]***
For driver protection I'll take the NASCAR side protection. For chassis strength I'll take the "X".

From my NASCAR days we found on a chassis flex tester that the X was stiffer ( that seems obvious ) but if the "NASCAR" bars were properly braced ( in between diagonals ) the strength was the same and side impact was better with the NASCAR setup and offered more crush and reduced transmitted impact. I will take an extra few inches from someones bumper left or right side...

Kirk, BTW I think X bars LOOK better

[ddewhurst]

Jarrod, we are riding in the same boat. I totally toasted (firewall forward all twisted to the drivers side,passenger side subframe stuffed into the firewall & kinked an area in passenger footwell up 4 inches, motor mounts, transmission mount) my 1st gen RX-7 at the Farm two weeks ago while leading the ITA class. 1st time out with the new suspension turning low 1.26's on 4 year old Toyo tires. Yep, the front took a hell of a beating but the driver had/has zero anything. Ya got to love it when the car is toast but the driver is clean.

Have Fun
David

ps: Ya got to have a DREAM. New ITA RX-7 car, new Hoosiers & CRX hunting time.

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by JIgou:
...Having destroyed my Miata this past Sunday and had very little soreness during the ensuing days,...

Glad you are all right.

(Okay, enough with the serious stuff.)

Hey Jarrod, what it is with you Isaac users and Miatas, getting turned around and parked looking upstream? You this past weekend and Bowie last month at Road Atlanta's T5 (caution, 500+K:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Users/RACrunch.JPG

We may have to title your photo series "RACrunch II".

[Edit: Oops, not everyone is on broadband.]

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[This message has been edited by gsbaker (edited July 28, 2005).]

[itmanta]

I am glad my Volvo is in ITE and our rules here say the cage must meet or "exceed" IT specifications. My main hoop sits 10" behind the B pillar. This means to incorporate nascar style door bars I would have a straight section of tubing over 10" long before the tube could be bent to intrude into the door cavity. This design transmits no energy through the cage and makes it plain dangerous. I feel the new rule is BS and does not take into acount the various body styles in IT. There is no one safe design. Each car has to be evaluated and the safest cage possible should be built.

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Peter Linssen
ITE Volvo 740 Turbo
ITB Opel Manta
Oregon Region

[JIgou]

C'mon, Bowie, you can tear up a Miata better than that!!

http://iowa.raquet.net/miata/Miata%20Cup%2...%2005%20004.jpg

http://iowa.raquet.net/miata/Miata%20Cup%2...%2005%20001.jpg

OK, I do see some similarities....

Jarrod

[This message has been edited by JIgou (edited July 28, 2005).]

[ddewhurst]

***This design transmits no energy through the cage and makes it plain dangerous.***

Based on what techinal data ?

***I feel the new rule is BS and does not take into acount the various body styles in IT.***

What is BS about the new rule ?

***There is no one safe design. Each car has to be evaluated and the safest cage possible should be built.***

Are you going to do the design evaluation for each car ?

Have Fun
David

[ddewhurst]

Greg, thanks for sharing the warmth with non Isaaac users.

Have Fun
David

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by JIgou:
C'mon, Bowie, you can tear up a Miata better than that!!

http://iowa.raquet.net/miata/Miata%20Cup%2...%2005%20004.jpg

http://iowa.raquet.net/miata/Miata%20Cup%2...%2005%20001.jpg

OK, I do see some similarities....

Jarrod

[This message has been edited by JIgou (edited July 28, 2005).]

While I don't have pics, there were some pretty munched Miatas at the 12 Hours of Summit Point!



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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:
Greg, thanks for sharing the warmth with non Isaaac users.

Feel the love...

G

[itmanta]

"***This design transmits no energy through the cage and makes it plain dangerous.***
Based on what techinal data ?"

If you follow the load path in a side impact the doorbars would intrude significantly (in the rearmost portion)before the mainhoop can help out.

"***I feel the new rule is BS and does not take into acount the various body styles in IT.*** What is BS about the new rule ?"

I insert foot in mouth here__ I read the new ruling to mean "nascar" style door bars would be MANDATORY.

"***There is no one safe design. Each car has to be evaluated and the safest cage possible should be built.***Are you going to do the design evaluation for each car ?"

I believe that has always been done by the cage builder and inspected by a tech official?

The basis of my post was "not well founded" so maybe I should have the whole thing deleted. I'll blame it on the heat.



------------------
Peter Linssen
ITE Volvo 740 Turbo
ITB Opel Manta
Oregon Region

[ddewhurst]

***I believe that has always been done by the cage builder and inspected by a tech official?***

Thisv ^ leaves something to be desired. I have a somewhat empty feeling.

***The basis of my post was "not well founded" so maybe I should have the whole thing deleted. I'll blame it on the heat.***

Peter, I'll buy into the heat ^. Now & then I don't read well when it's hot.

Have Fun
David

ps: Gregg, do I get a T shirt for toasting a car with zero red mark, zero bruise & no medical injury ? The entire chassis in front of the firewall abbsorbed the energy. Matter of fact the subframe on the passengers side stuffed the floor up approx 4 inches.

ps: Bill, do ya think the easter eggs are being spent because the drivers are crossing the line of capability versus desire ? That's what I did & I know it.

[badal]

Originally posted by itmanta:

If you follow the load path in a side impact the doorbars would intrude significantly (in the rearmost portion)before the mainhoop can help out.

[/B]

The doorbars don't have to attach directly to the main hoop. You can add a vertical between the horizontal seat brace tube and a parallel bar at the bottom of the main hoop. Use this vetical tube to brace the door bars.

I find it interesting passenger side bars used to not be permitted (in SS at least)

Why not say "Do whatever you want, just meet the minimum requirements, and don't attach to or pierce the firewall"?



------------------
"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

[Knestis]

It isn't really about the bars, though BAB. It's about the door panels and structure.

K

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Knestis:
It isn't really about the bars, though BAB. It's about the door panels and structure.

K

EXACTLY! The SCCA is not known for making rule changes to allow their cars to 'cross-polinate' other, non-SCCA series (nor do I think they necessarily should). Heck, they don't even do it to accomodate their own series. For example, just look at the the things that would need to be taken off a Street Prepared, or Street Modified Solo II car, to run in IT or Prod.


------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[RacerBowie]

Ouch man! Glad you are ok. That looks worse than mine, and I am in it for $3000 so far! Looks like you will have to replace the RF from the firewall if you keep that tub, where mine just had to be "clipped" in front of both strut towers.

And here I was hoping for more ITA Miatas at the ARRC!

Originally posted by JIgou:
C'mon, Bowie, you can tear up a Miata better than that!!

http://iowa.raquet.net/miata/Miata%20Cup%2...%2005%20004.jpg

http://iowa.raquet.net/miata/Miata%20Cup%2...%2005%20001.jpg

OK, I do see some similarities....

Jarrod

[This message has been edited by JIgou (edited July 28, 2005).]

[gsbaker]

Originally posted by ddewhurst:

...ps: Gregg, do I get a T shirt for toasting a car with zero red mark, zero bruise & no medical injury ? The entire chassis in front of the firewall abbsorbed the energy. Matter of fact the subframe on the passengers side stuffed the floor up approx 4 inches....

If you promise to wear it Dave, I'll see to it that you get a free hat, worn here by someone who knows:

http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Humor/He...orthKeeping.JPG



------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[ddewhurst]

Gregg, that works because the comparative data tells me it is a great product. There will be an improvement for my head/neck safety upon completion of my new car. When I toasted the current car the car was going backwards but with more movement sideways. When the right front of the car hit a row of barrels I swear were filled with concret my head went big time right, while right I viewed the hood crush towards me & then my head went back to the left & smacked the covered side hoop. Upon impact the car whipped around another 180* coming to rest pointed in the correct direction.

Advertising for a great product is good for those whou know of the product & for those who don't know or have a clue that the Isaac exists or what it is.

Have Fun
David

2551 North 67th Street
Wauwatosa, WI 54312

[gsbaker]

You da man, Dave! The FedEx truck is headed your way.

Oops, we need a phone number for those guys. Try me at gbaker (at) isaacdirect (dot) com.

Have a great weekend.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

[JIgou]

Originally posted by RacerBowie:
Ouch man! Glad you are ok. That looks worse than mine, and I am in it for $3000 so far! Looks like you will have to replace the RF from the firewall if you keep that tub, where mine just had to be "clipped" in front of both strut towers.

And here I was hoping for more ITA Miatas at the ARRC!

Heh. There's a buckle in the transmission tunnel about 6 inches in front of the shifter. A local guy says we can cut it in half somewhere around the driver's seat area and weld on the same from another car.

On that note, I've commenced "Operation Red Car." Just happened that we picked up a '91 street car cheap about a week before.....and, while I'd like to keep driving it to work, my wife keeps reminding me that we picked it up for JUST such an occasion.

Mr. Dewhurst, have you found a chassis yet? I discovered a couple of shells here in Des Moines that are looking for new homes. (One is a "running" car that they can't keep running unless they keep spraying carb cleaner in it - $200. The other is a shell that he thought might be a GSL-SE non-sunroof....)

jigou AT raquet DOT net if you want me to drop by and snap some photos/gather more info.

Jarrod

[ddewhurst]

Jarrod, I appreciate the info on a 1st gen. I couldn't find a rust free within several local states so a racing friend checked one out in Oregon. Should be picking it up tonight. Shipping costs make the car cost kind of upwards but the thing is rust free.

Thanks
David