Are coilovers always allowed?

[GT240sx]

The question is: If you were to have a vehicle with independent rear suspension and the coil springs and the shocks were separate, could you then under the new rule replace the shock with a coil over and leave the original spring out?

Here is the section of the GCR concerning springs and coilovers for reference.

Springs of any origin may be used, provided they are of the same number and type as originally fitted, i.e., coil, leaf, torsion bar, and that they shall be installed in the original location using the original system of attachment. The joining of two or more coil springs by any means is prohibited. The use of tender springs (designed to capture the spring within the perches at full droop) are permitted provided the tender springs are completely compressed when the car is at static ride height. Shackles or spacers may be used to adjust leaf spring ride height. Spacers, including threaded units with adjustable spring seats, may be used with coil springs. Coil over threaded body shock/struts are permitted.


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Russell White
Indianapolis, IN
'85 Toyota Supra
ready for ITS in 8 months....maybe

[racer14itc]

The key words here are "original location". Your replacement springs have to be in their original location. If you leave the original springs out and go with coilovers, then your new springs are not in their original location anymore, are they?

MC

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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

[joeg]

Simple answer is "no".

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by joeg:
Simple answer is "no".

You're right Joe, but the college professor in me is just trained to also explain "why"!

MC


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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

[jhooten]

Then why the last sentence, which is intalics in the ITCS, "Coil over threaded body shock/strut are permitted."?

You can use threaded body shocks you just can't put the spings on them. Don't make sence.

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by jhooten:
Then why the last sentence, which is intalics in the ITCS, "Coil over threaded body shock/strut are permitted."?

You can use threaded body shocks you just can't put the spings on them. Don't make sence.

Since when have the SCCA rules ever made sense??

I believe that last line was added so that IT racers could use commerically available threaded body shocks without having to spend a lot of $$$ making them IT "legal", i.e. no threads on the outside.

I would guess that the intent of the rule is to prevent radical suspension redesign on cars that don't come with coil-overs from the factory (live rear axle designs, independent rear suspensions like 510's, BMW's, etc.) utilizing coil over shocks.

MC



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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

[joeg]

OK, Professori Mark!

[Bryan Watts]

The last portion was added in order to make thread bodies allowed. In the past, you had to use a threaded sleeve in order to be legal. The springs must still be in the original location.

[GT240sx]

I had the same concerns about the "original location" statement in the rule. However, the last sentence does say that coil overs are permitted. Also, I could be way off here, but if you read the rule such that the first statement is over and above the last statement, I think it would be difficult to say even a car with the spring and shock co-located could have coil overs, because, when using the coil over are you still using the "original system of attachement" for the spring?

[zracre]

You are changing the location of suspension mounting points i.e. the spring is moved to the shock body instead of its origional location, therefore i do not think any interpretation of a rule can allow you to change the type of suspension you have on a specific car.....If it were to be protested, you would lose. You are allowed to use coilovers if you have a shock and body as one unit. If you have leaf springs, can you remove them? no. Origionally you had to have the threaded unit made to fit on the stock spring seat, but they changed that because it got more difficult to make set ups for that when off the shelf units were getting cheaper and easier to get. my point is when you go to coil overs, you can raise and lower the spring. its mounting point remains the same. You want to relocate the spring completely to a different type of suspension altogether....

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Evan Darling
ITA Integra

[This message has been edited by zracre (edited June 30, 2005).]

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by GT240sx:
I had the same concerns about the "original location" statement in the rule. However, the last sentence does say that coil overs are permitted. Also, I could be way off here, but if you read the rule such that the first statement is over and above the last statement, I think it would be difficult to say even a car with the spring and shock co-located could have coil overs, because, when using the coil over are you still using the "original system of attachement" for the spring?

Do you consider springs to be attached?

AB

[GT240sx]

Andy, I am not sure exactly what you are asking, but yes I consider springs to be attached.
Also, I agree that the rule is not intended to allow radical suspension changes. For example, a leaf spring equipped vehicle being changed to coilovers. However, that would most likely result in a suspension geometry change because leaf springs typically act as axel locating members. In the case of a trailing arm type independent rear suspension, the suspension geometry would not be changed by using a coilover in the stock shock location, it would just reduce setup complexity. You can achieve the exact same result with a threaded spring perch in the stock spring location and the shock being separate in its stock location. It is just more complex.

[JamesB]

but your still moving the perch location of the spring therefor by the rules its illegal. Now if you where to keep the current purch location but use a threaded purch (late model VW coilover kits are like this.) then you would be completely legal and adjustable.

[bldn10]

Just another example of less than optimum draftsmanship.

Here's a wrinkle - what if you go w/ a coilover but also retain a stock-type spring that is so soft that it has no effect?

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Bill Denton
87/89 ITS RX-7
02 Audi TT225QC
95 Tahoe
Memphis

[charrbq]

Bill, I've heard of that scenario being done. The guy spent almost every race weekend in the tech shed. He always got away with it, but finally sold the car and moved to professional racing. It's too easy to follow the rules as they are written now.

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Chris Harris
ITC Honda Civic

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by bldn10:
Just another example of less than optimum draftsmanship.

Here's a wrinkle - what if you go w/ a coilover but also retain a stock-type spring that is so soft that it has no effect?

Then you'd have more than the stock number of springs...illegal...you're DQ'd...do not pass go...do not collect $200!

MC



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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by bldn10:
Just another example of less than optimum draftsmanship.

Or, maybe just another example of people torturing the rules...



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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX

[Knestis]

I'm surprised nobody has asked, "if bushings (which are free) can be made completely or largely of air, why can't springs?"

K

[racer14itc]

Originally posted by Knestis:
I'm surprised nobody has asked, "if bushings (which are free) can be made completely or largely of air, why can't springs?"

K

I thought only Lincoln Continentals had air springs??

I think the rule is pretty clear, the springs must be of the same type (coil vs. leaf vs. torsion bar, etc.) , must be installed in their original location, and there must be the same number of springs as original (with the exception of tender springs).

Hard to get around those constraints.

MC


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Mark Coffin
#14 GP BSI Racing/Action Digital/Airborn Coatings/Krispy Kreme VW Scirocco

[This message has been edited by racer14itc (edited June 30, 2005).]

[lateapex911]

Wait a minute.

Dampers are free, right? Lots of guys run droop limiters on the body of the shock, (A cable that limits the dampers extention), and nobody says boo about it.

And lots of dampers are charged with either high pressure or low pressure gaas, which is definately a spring...

So..........

I can see a shock with a spring integral, along with a soft spring in the original location being a pretty clever solution.

Intent of the rules?? Not sure...
Letter of the rules? Seems so...

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]