Question - What do you consider "useless items" on IT cars?

[Ron Earp]

Along the same vein as the other thread, what do you consider useless items on an IT car, that is, items that we do not need and do not offer any competitive advantage. I just thought I'd help collect some data for the other thread.

Please, don't digress into a discussion of agreeing or disagreeing with a particular item being made non-maditory, just put down what you think. Personally my car will have lots of these since it'll be titled and driven on the street, but doesn't mean I don't consider them useless for a race car in many instances.
--
*Washer bottles
*OEM wiring harnesses
*Windshield wipers/motors
*Any and all controls/switches/gauges for anything not kept working in the car for whatever reason.
*Glass in any doors
*Window mechanisms
*All emissions related equipment (covered I know)
*All lights except for brake lights

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning Tow Beast
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
260Z ITS - Just call me fireball!

[jhooten]

Factory door panels

door glass and mechanism

dome light wiring

While I keep mine for the defroster/defogger, if you can bypass the heater core it should be removable.

Glove box door

Unleaded fuel filler restrictor

electric door locks

body side moldings

I'm sure I think of something else later.

[JeffYoung]

At the moment, my transmission.

[ShelbyRacer]

Everything between the steering wheel and the seat back brace...

Sorry Ron, I just had to...

Seriously-
OEM wiring
stock length shifters (man I almost spelled that without the "f")

AND

stock crank pullies for the rest of this year!


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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[Knestis]

To be fair, I'll add...

** Theft deterrent systems that all cars on my spec line seem to have come with



K

[Ron Earp]

So, does that about cover it? I don't see a single thing here that would turn IT into production nor do I think it would result in huge rules creep.

R

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning Tow Beast
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
260Z ITS - Just call me fireball!

[Andy Bettencourt]

When you total up the list, make sure you eliminate stuff that is already removable under the rules.

* Body side moldings
* Emissions stuff
* Dome light wiring
* Door panels** (both removable with the installation of other items)

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[RacerBill]

I don't know if they are already covered in the rules (I am only a freshman rules geek), but in the process of preparing my car, I see a lot of little pieces of metal hanging about that were used to mount legally removable items (rear seat, floor consol, etc.) I would like to remove them just because I don't want to have to worry about getting my clothing (or skin) caught on them if I were bouncing around inside the car. No wise cracks about why I would be bouncing around inside...

[Knestis]

When not constrained by rules, we cut more than 20 pounds of unused brackets out of a MkII Golf shell to go rallying.

K

[Geo]

Andy,

How can someone legally remove the dome light wiring?



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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Geo:
Andy,

How can someone legally remove the dome light wiring?

"Carpets, center consoles, floor mats, headliners, sunroof liner and frame, dome lights, grab handles, and thier insulating, attaching or operating machanisms may be removed."

Would the wires to the dome light not be considered part of its operating mechanism? Could you easily say that the wires do some INSULATING? Without the wires, the dome light can't operate...or are we taking the literal definition of mechanism on it's own?

mech·a·nism
Pronunciation: 'me-k&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
1 a : a piece of machinery b : a process or technique for achieving a result
2 : mechanical operation or action : WORKING 2
3 : a doctrine that holds natural processes (as of life) to be mechanically determined and capable of complete explanation by the laws of physics and chemistry
4 : the fundamental physical or chemical processes involved in or responsible for an action, reaction, or other natural phenomenon (as organic evolution)

I could be convinced otherwise but that is how I slice it and dice it!

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com



[This message has been edited by Andy Bettencourt (edited February 22, 2005).]

[Geo]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
"Carpets, center consoles, floor mats, headliners, sunroof liner and frame, dome lights, grab handles, and thier insulating, attaching or operating machanisms may be removed."

Would the wires to the dome light not be considered part of its operating mechanism? Could you easily say that the wires do some INSULATING? Without the wires, the dome light can't operate...or are we taking the literal definition of mechanism on it's own?

That sounds a lot like the "a switch is an instrument argument."

Wires are wires.

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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[This message has been edited by Geo (edited February 22, 2005).]

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Geo:
That sounds a lot like the "a switch is an instrument argument."

Wires are wires.

A switch is an instrument George. Only GCR Nazi's say otherwize.
GRJ

[Ron Earp]

Don't drag this disucssion off to left field too.

Just write down things that you think are useless to have on IT cars and move on. If you think we need everything on the car that comes with the car then you clearly don't need to post here.

I'm just trying to help those that are wishing to write the CRB on the issue to formulate to hard and clear things to be removed or changed. I'm sure any new requests would always include the words "and associated wiring" since we've been down this road at least twice since I've been on the board, not long.

Ron

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Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning Tow Beast
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
260Z ITS - Just call me fireball!

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited February 23, 2005).]

[Spinnetti]

Remember the origins of IT?
Some years ago, the same folks came up with a spec Corolla class where every thing was pretty much stock except springs, bars, shocks, tires, wheels, header/exhaust but you could gut the rest.

This is where I think IT should be. I wouln't allow coilovers, or equiv., or much of anything else, but you should be able to gut the car - all interior, brackets, accesories, heater whatever, however you need to down to a minimum weight.

It appears to me that the SCCA is more interested in protecting sacred cows than fun racing - I'm looking for the lightest most reliable and easiest to repair possible. The light weight takes stress off stock components you might otherwise need to upgrade, and the simplicy of maintenance of a gutted car can't be beat.

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by Spinnetti:
I wouln't allow coilovers, or equiv., or much of anything else, ..... It appears to me that the SCCA is more interested in protecting sacred cows than fun racing...

"Fun racing" is very subjective... Personally, I don't see what is so much "fun" about racing a car with a stock suspension... Given the choice of bolting on a set of nice racing coilovers, and chopping the crap out of a perfectly good car, I'll take the coilovers every time...

The class you describe sounds a lot like the NASCAR Mini-Stock class that used to run at the Everygreen Speedway in Monroe, WA 20-years ago... YUK!



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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX

[Spinnetti]

Originally posted by Banzai240:
"Fun racing" is very subjective... Personally, I don't see what is so much "fun" about racing a car with a stock suspension... Given the choice of bolting on a set of nice racing coilovers, and chopping the crap out of a perfectly good car, I'll take the coilovers every time...

The class you describe sounds a lot like the NASCAR Mini-Stock class that used to run at the Everygreen Speedway in Monroe, WA 20-years ago... YUK!

Funny. Actually I was more commenting on how the SCCA says the 'intent of the class' all the time, then doesn't allow easy cheap mods, but allows ecu mods and coilovers.

Don't get me wrong, I've done it all, and other than the fact that my car is now long in the tooth, I've always run up front. Its just that what gets allowed or not is crazy.
I can't move my battery for better safety and handling at practically 0 cost, but I can modify my ecu and run coilovers, both of which are very expensive..

Hmm.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by grjones1:

A switch is an instrument George. Only GCR Nazi's say otherwize.
GRJ

Until such time that you can actually read a GCR definition, or such time that you successfully petition the ITAC and CRB to change same definition, I suggest you stop calling us all "GCR Nazis" .

I find that statement to be totally inappropriate and distasteful.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited February 27, 2005).]

[Geo]

Originally posted by Spinnetti:
Funny. Actually I was more commenting on how the SCCA says the 'intent of the class' all the time, then doesn't allow easy cheap mods, but allows ecu mods and coilovers.

I started to write a long response, but it just got to be too long. The statement of intent is certainly can be interpreted differently by different people. Remember that the intent is to restrict mods. What is inexpensive is also certainly open to different interpretation. To someone racing a Formula Atlantic, even a turn-key championship winning E36 is cheap.

Getting down to the specifics you mentioned, coilovers are way cheaper than having a butt-load of custom springs made with different rates and ride heights.

The ECU rule is problematic. I philosophically agree with Bill Miller (require bone stock ECUs), but pragmatically this is unenforceable. I've yet to see another way to word the ruling to restrict this that works despite some excellent efforts.

I personally don't see the safety issue with leaving the battery where it is, and can see potential safety issues with moving it. As for performance benefits, that's a non-issue.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. When we talk about intent we talk about a rather undefined concept that everyone has a different concept of. And that is one reason we have as many people as we do on the advisory committe.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[GKR_17]

The horn is pretty useless in an IT car, especially when many change out the steering wheel for one without buttons.