Main Hoop Braces/Bulkhead interpretations

Miata?

I hate that word after our last race, a miata driver spun Joe around (looked to be out of frustration) spun him sideways and then plowed into the right front putting us out of the race until the next day, wasted the fender and the lower strut bolt pulled through the metal, we had a very nice car. I hope you got even for us. Here they run the Miata I don't care cars with us.

Bring on the movie, got the beer and popcorn ready.

Mont.

[Greg Amy]

We're WAAAY off-topic, but I guess that's better than a pissin' contest...

Low res: http://home.comcast.net/~whitney.bill/87sm.wmv

Hi res: http://home.comcast.net/~whitney.bill/87sm2.wmv

[This message has been edited by GregAmy (edited January 13, 2005).]

[bldn10]

Which damn cage are we talking about here? I've been looking at the red BMW (illegal) and Kirk's (legal). In that context:

"Oil pans are unrestricted. I make an oil pan that has a piece on the bottom that is a large flat sheet of aluminum. That piece extends from the front air dam to the rear bumper including a diffuser tunnel. Is that legal? If you read only the rule on oil systems it is. If you read the whole rule book then you know you'll have a number of people crawling under your car next race.
It's an extreme case, but so is the bar in Greg's cage."

Matt, like I said, you can't read the rules that literally, they assume a certain amount of common sense. A pan like that would be so far removed from its intended purpose that it will have morphed into something else altogether. Indeed, the illegal purpose becomes predominate. On the other hand, an additional tube in a cage (expressly allowed) does not change the essential nature or function of the cage and, arguably, almost any additional tube adds somewhat to the strength of the cage. The rear braces are allowed to be attached to the towers not to reinforce the suspension points but because they are presumed to be stable platforms and, it least IMO, a tube that spans them adds to the strength of the braces. Your arguments are logical, just too literal.

Now, having just looked at the photo of Greg's cage, it looks like his horizontal bar is attached to its own plate and it is not otherwise attached to the cage. If that is so, then that tube is indeed illegal because it is not even part of the cage and the cage rules are irrelevant. If the plate wraps around the tower then it is arguably part of the cage, but it may or may not be deemed an additional tube WITHIN the structure of the cage. So, if we are talking about Greg's, I agree w/ the guys who say it is in a gray area.

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Bill Denton
87/89 ITS RX-7
02 Audi TT225QC
95 Tahoe
Memphis

[ShelbyRacer]

Originally posted by bldn10:
Your arguments are logical, just too literal.

<snip>

So, if we are talking about Greg's, I agree w/ the guys who say it is in a gray area.

Well, if you reread what Matt was saying, that was his point. The arguement is not that Greg's cage is illegal and he should be allowed to race, the arguement is that it can be interpreted both ways, allowing for the difference of opinion and therefore discussion. I hope for Greg's sake that it's not found illegal, as then he'll have a change to make...

At the same time, I want to say I think that those who are willing to participate in these discussions are the ones who really want to race the other drivers, rather than the other cars. Besides, this is a *discussion* forum, so if you don't want to participate, don't look at the topic (not aimed at bldn).

I, for one, find these boards to be free entertainment. As I said to another board member last night on the phone, I really hope most of you guys are sitting there with big smiles on your faces having a good chuckle, and not getting bent out of shpae about this stuff... I know that I'm always smiling during every post I make here (versus some other places...)


Edited to mention Freudian slip in first paragraph- that Greg *shouldn't* be allowed to race...

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Matt Green
"Ain't nothin' improved about Improved Touring..."

[This message has been edited by ShelbyRacer (edited January 13, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by ShelbyRacer (edited January 13, 2005).]

I'll bet there were some words said after that race! Did they pull the camera out after the race and download to a laptop to show what really happened to the drivers?

That was a great accident and makes me feel better in some sick way, the Miata driver here needs that done to him to give him the feel.

Mont

[Knestis]

Race Karma caught up with the perp a few laps later and he was out, poked in the wall with the nose of his car creamed. The bumper cover was stuck in the Armco for the rest of the race as I recall...

K

[Ron]

Race Karma? If you watch closely the Mustang never moves of its line! It was the Miata that came over.Yes the car did end up in the gaurd rail because of a failed suspension piece from hitting the Miata. I know, 13 hour race why push so hard, bla,bla,bla. The driver of the Mustang ran in IMSA back in the 70's when they raced hard every lap, even if it was a enduro! Kurt sorry if the little tap in passing your car might have been too much. But we are all racing hard.

Ron, owner of said Mustang

[lateapex911]

Well, regarding the videos, the high res makes it much easier to see whats what..

As to what happened....well opinions will vary on this one....seems silly to wreck on a straight though...no matter who's "holding the line" or who's "moving over"...

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Knestis]

I have no heartburn over the situation, Ron so no apology is necessary.

Karma isn't about whether someone has done something wrong or not, necessarily: It's about the way the universe works things out for itself. Racing is a messy business and I think ultimately, once all of the racing miles are run, it all works out.

I got absorbed in a race for position and made life really hard for one of the fastest cars on the track, making him leap a curb rather than punt me, so I know not to get too involved in stone-throwing...

K

[theenico]

Originally posted by Marzracing:
Ok, I will start welding in the morning. Same thing goes for Rabbit and GTI, right?

Thanks Knestis. Gotta love the rule book and a nerd, That's why I married one, The rules started with "I DO". The nerd is what I married long ago.

Btw, looks like I got off cheap, no charges to any of the cards.


What's up with your home page K, over the limit? Or just all of my walls.

Mont

[This message has been edited by Marzracing (edited January 12, 2005).]

Here are some pics of an A1 chassis cage. The rear shock towers are done similar to Kirk's.






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Nico Prelogar
ITB/GP Scirocco sold

[This message has been edited by theenico (edited January 17, 2005).]

[Bill Miller]

150

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Tom Donnelly]

I just caught the video. It looks like the miata driver just didn't know the mustang was there at the kink. The mustang (Ron) was riding the fine edge of the track and came up on the miata pretty quickly.

A pass is the responsibility of the overtaking driver, isn't it? The miata does look like it was coming over in the kink. Alot of us didn't have the experience of racing in IMSA, (which is pretty cool by the way), so maybe you could cut a slower driver some slack since this is just club racing anyway?

JMHO,
Tom Donnelly
ITS 240z

GregAmy,

13hrs done yet? Ship away! If you need any software let me know, I will send all and everything you need. What software are you going to use to save this important race win?

Let me know if I can help.

Mont