Main Hoop Braces/Bulkhead interpretations

[tderonne]

One more nit-pick.

I don't see where the rear downtube attaches to the mounting plate. Looks like it only goes to the horizontal bar, which looks like the first tube that was installed.

(Just looked the pics. There is a clear picture before all the tubes were in place. Yup, horizontal went in first.)

Tim.



[This message has been edited by tderonne (edited January 04, 2005).]

[VWPartsGuy]

There is alot of talk about the legality of the red car's mounting points but not much opinion on the original question. CAN we cut/notch/poke though a factory bulkhead?

[tderonne]

Oh yeah, original question. Heck yeah. It says the downtubes have to go to the chassis/frame. How else you going to get there?

[Joe Harlan]

Back to the question....Yes and it is in the itcs in plain engrish.....

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
I think you'll be fine cutting a hole where you need to, and when you're done, attaching a metal panel over the speaker holes, and around the rear brace if the hole you cut needed to be larger than the tube for installation.

Re: the red car, that DID look impressive at first, but I bet it's OK.

I'll just quote myself on this one...it's done all the time, and the GCR is pretty clear as well.



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by tderonne:
One more nit-pick.

I don't see where the rear downtube attaches to the mounting plate. Looks like it only goes to the horizontal bar, which looks like the first tube that was installed.

(Just looked the pics. There is a clear picture before all the tubes were in place. Yup, horizontal went in first.)

Tim.

[This message has been edited by tderonne (edited January 04, 2005).]

Tim,

You're right. When I look at the first picture that Kirk posted, it's obvious from the fish mouth that's welded on the 'continuation' tube.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Knestis]

Originally posted by tderonne:
One more nit-pick. ... Just looked the pics. There is a clear picture before all the tubes were in place. Yup, horizontal went in first.

Interesting. I've never worried about that question. I'm wondering how, from an engineering standpoint, does it matter?

K

[tderonne]

Engineering? Not in question here (good or bad).

Rule says that the downtubes have to go to the chassis or frame, not to another tube.

[This message has been edited by tderonne (edited January 05, 2005).]

[seckerich]

The down tube is continuous to the shock tower and continues to the plate on the floor. The other tubes are welded to it. Very strong and legal if the plate measures up.

[RSTPerformance]

Originally posted by seckerich:
The down tube is continuous to the shock tower and continues to the plate on the floor. The other tubes are welded to it. Very strong and legal if the plate measures up.

From the pictures it looks like the cross tube goes to the plate at the shock tower and all other tubes leading away form that location are coming off of the cross tube including the 2 going to the floor and the tubes going to the main hoop. I am not an engineer but it does seem like it would be weeker in a rollover accident but I honestly have no idea on strength so i'll stop here

Stephen

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by seckerich:
The down tube is continuous to the shock tower and continues to the plate on the floor. The other tubes are welded to it. Very strong and legal if the plate measures up.

Copy the image to your PC, open it in an image editor, and zoom in. It's pretty obvious that the rear down tube is not a continuous run.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[tderonne]

I wasn't positive until I saw this picture:

http://www.tcdesignfab.com/mark-20.jpg

The short rear tubes may be an attempt to hide this fact.

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by tderonne:
I wasn't positive until I saw this picture:

http://www.tcdesignfab.com/mark-20.jpg

The short rear tubes may be an attempt to hide this fact.

Yeah Tim, that would make it pretty clear.

/edit/ Another intersting thing that Tim's pic shows, is that the mounting plate under the short rear tube isn't part of the original mounting plate used for the other tubes. Now I understand that the rule says that the plates may be multi-plane in design, but I don't see anything in the rules that says the plates may be multi-piece.

Boy, is this guy going to be surprised at his first SCCA race w/ this car.
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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[This message has been edited by Bill Miller (edited January 05, 2005).]

[theenico]

You guys crack me up ....

Isn't there something in the GCR about tortured interpretations

[Knestis]

The "tortured and strained" clause gets invoked sometimes to shoot down entrants' defenses of their interpretations but I don't know that I've ever seen it applied equally enthusiastically the other direction, on prosecutions as it were.

K

[Geo]

Originally posted by theenico:
You guys crack me up ....

Isn't there something in the GCR about tortured interpretations

I don't see what's tortured and strained in this thread.

That car is ILLEGAL AS HELL for IT.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Speed Raycer]

Geo... I believe Nico is referring to this (but I could be wrong)....

Now I understand that the rule says that the plates may be multi-plane in design, but I don't see anything in the rules that says the plates may be multi-piece.

[lateapex911]

hmmmmm.......

If you take two plates, weld them together at 90 degrees, grind the weld into a nice radius, is it a two peice item?

If so, and the rule requires a single peice design, half the cars in IT are instantly illegal.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Bill Miller]

Well, I made that comment based on what you see in the pictures. In the picture that shows the missing rear stays, that run from the crossbar to the floor, you can see that no plate to mount the tube to is in place.

Jake, is that how the rule is supposed to work? If you weld adjacent plates together, do they become a single plate? My interpretation of the rule is that if you're going to make a 'composite' plate, you should have it build, and then installed as one piece. I really have no problem w/ that. In my mind, that's a single piece.

But, the cage in question is so blatantly illegal for IT, I guess it really doesn't matter how many more ways it is illegal.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Ron Earp]

Is the owner of this car aware his car is being discussed here? And, is this car an offering by a build shop?

How would anything happen to the fellow to get disqualified? Wouldn't someone have to protest him, or, would a tech inspector not pass or sign off on it?

Ron

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Ron
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