Rules interpretation

[itmanta]

Here is an excerpt from the oregon region SCCA ITE rules. I believe it would allow me to flare the fenders to fit tires/wheels. What do you think?

Body / Structure:
Body / Structure modifications are limited to the ITCS preparation
rules (17.1.4.D.8) except for the following:
1. Fender modifications are allowed for the purpose of tire
clearance. Alternate fenders and doors are prohibited.

Wheels / Tires:
Wheel and Tire modifications are limited to the ITCS preparation rules
(ITCS 17.1.4.D.7) except for the following:
1. All ITE cars shall run on D.O.T. approved tires.
2. Wheel and tire size are free, within the limitation that the
wheel/tire combination must fit completely within the front and
rear fender well opening.
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Peter Linssen
ITE Volvo 740 Turbo
ITB Opel Manta
www.mvpvolvo.com
Oregon Region

[This message has been edited by itmanta (edited January 09, 2005).]

[rjohnson999]

I would disagree. Without speaking to the authors of the rules, I would be willing to bet a round of adult beverages that they only envisioned allowing rolling the inner lip of the fenders to achieve clearance. I doubt they intended to permit flares.

[Knestis]

When an interpretation of one rule counts on another being broken, it doesn't seem to me that it's likely to fly. I don't know for sure though, obviously...

K

[Joe Harlan]

Well as a co- author I can tell you the intent was any wheel and tire combo under the stock fender opening. IE no flares. Even though the cars are really SP cars on DOT's the idea was to try to stay IT in the area of the body. What kind of car are you building?

[itmanta]

Remember this is a very open ended class where many regions have no rules at all except tub chassis and DOT tires. The term "fender modifications" is very open. As is the allowance for any size wheel/tire.
Just as long as the end result is that the tires and wheels are inside the fenders I should be within the rules as written. I really do not care about intent, that is up to interpretation.

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Peter Linssen
ITE Volvo 740 Turbo
ITB Opel Manta
www.mvpvolvo.com
Oregon Region

[itmanta]

I have a traction limited Volvo 740 turbo. I am regaining my license through the ISCCA novice program so far.

[This message has been edited by itmanta (edited January 09, 2005).]

[Joe Harlan]

Peter, come on over to the darkside and take our school in March, We have a lot of ITE cars running in Oregon Region. You should be able to get at least 245-40-18's under your stock fenders. I run them on my RS 240sx and its plenty of tire.

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Remember this is a very open ended class where many regions have no rules at all except tub chassis and DOT tires. </font>

We had to put some rules to the class because like all fun things it started to get out of hand. Cars reach a point in speed that they go way beyond the IT safety rules. So we pulled it back to keep that from happening. The rules are still pretty loose but the speeds and laps time are hanging in with the safety stuff that is required.

Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Harlan (edited January 09, 2005).]

[itmanta]

Hey Joe, I have been part of the dark side and will be again. There were no SCCA schools available by the time I got the car track ready last year so I just went TC. When the car and I are up to speed I will do some SCCA stuff. Did I meet you over at Russ's shop (Racetech)last year? See My problem is getting power to the ground. Last season the car had 300rwhp and this year will have at least 350rwhp and torque over 400ft/lbs. In a 2700lb car and no weight on the rear I have to keep an egg under the accelerator coming out of turns. The porsches and the corvetts have massive tires and wheels to hook up.

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Peter Linssen
ITE Volvo 740 Turbo
ITB Opel Manta
www.mvpvolvo.com
Oregon Region

[This message has been edited by itmanta (edited January 09, 2005).]

[Joe Harlan]

Peter you may have met me there if you were getting an annual, Thats the only time I have ever been there. Give me a call at my shop sometime and we can chat. I may be able to help you get a bit more bite out of that car. 503 650 9548

Joe

[jc836]

Hm-as I read this it means the "inner fender well" and that does not mean you can enlarge that part. The well is part of the structure of the car if welded in place. I agree one can and probably should roll the lip.

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Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

[Bill Miller]

Joe,

If all that was intended was to roll the lip, why the extra clause? Rolling the lip is already allowed under the ITCS. I do agree that the wheel/tire section does indicate no mods to the fenders.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Joe Harlan]

haha Bill, Note the words co-author. I don't recall why there was a need for that section. I think that may be a section that was there and we didn't get rid of it when writing the other section.

Joe

[Andy Bettencourt]

The way that rule reads is very similar to Solo2 Street Prepared. By the rules, you could flare the fender.

Body / Structure:
Body / Structure modifications are limited to the ITCS preparation
rules (17.1.4.D.8) except for the following:
1. Fender modifications are allowed for the purpose of tire
clearance. Alternate fenders and doors are prohibited.

This says to me that you can do anything you want EXCEPT fully new and custom designed fender and doors - re: bolt on body kits.

I would 'modify' my fender by cutting them and flaring them. No other restrictions are written.

Wheels / Tires:
Wheel and Tire modifications are limited to the ITCS preparation rules
(ITCS 17.1.4.D.7) except for the following:
1. All ITE cars shall run on D.O.T. approved tires.
2. Wheel and tire size are free, within the limitation that the
wheel/tire combination must fit completely within the front and
rear fender well opening.

This then says that the DOT tires I run must fit under my legal fenders. Since I can flare them per the rules, I will be able to get bigger tires under there, however - flared or not, they must stay under the fender like in IT.

If the intent was no mods other than rolling the lip, the rule is poorly written. I don't operate in the grey very often and flaring the fenders under this set of rules just isn't grey - it's legal.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[This message has been edited by Andy Bettencourt (edited January 10, 2005).]

[joeg]

I think you can flare away on the stock fender.

[itmanta]

The Porsche guys would probably pop out of their skin if I showed up with flares. It sure would be lot of work just to get the rule re-written.

[Knestis]

I pay attention to what is going on in the NW, just for old-times' sake, and it does appear that ITE is driven by the PCA folks. Recent Corvette efforts up there (Scotty White's) might provide interesting case studies of what happens if you poke that bees' nest.

K

[Joe Harlan]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Recent Corvette efforts up there (Scotty White's) might provide interesting case studies of what happens if you poke that bees' nest.</font>

This is one of the reasons I got into helping with the re-write. A group of people tried to prevent Scotty's Speedvision car from running ITE.

Peter I will look into the rule a bit further because I agree the foirst section is poorly written but being a regional class it could be changed before your fenders were flared so lets figure it out now before you spend money.