E-36 Restrictor Plate/Andy Bettencourt

[DMaynard]

Hi All:

Well this was our very first year of ITS Racing and we had a BLAST. We met a lot of GREAT people and had a lot of FUN. Learnt tons from everyone every weekend.

So I am hoping to shed a little light on the issue begin discussed with regards to the rear sub-frame/chassis repair and I don't mean to offend anyone in the process.

Little information about us, our company repairs and services BMW's exclusively, we have all factory testing equipment and tools. Dan (my husband) has been working on BMW's exclusively since 1980.

So here's a little information:

The Rear Sub-Frame/Chassis Repair is actually four BMW factory plates (Part #41-11-2-256-497 | #41-11-2-256-498 | #41-00-2-256-495 | #41-00-2-256-496)that are welded to the BODY due to the Rear Sub-Frame tearing away from the uni-body. The Rear Sub-Frame is not what gets damaged, it is the Body attachment points that get ripped away. The usualy complaint is a loud clunking noise from the left rear.

We have had to do this repair to quite a few customers E36 daily drivers, most whom live in the Boston area "Big Dig" or customers who aggressively drive their vehicles.

We have not had to perform this repair yet to our own E36, but we do have to check the area after each race because of it being a known weak point. The left rear side is the one that usually tears away from the body.

In order to do the job it takes about 10 to 15 hours because you have to remove the rear sub-frame completely in order to access the area that the new plates attach to the body.

I hope this answers some of the questions about the Rear Sub-Frame/Chassis Repair. I do have pictures of some of our customers cars before and after if you are interested. I just haven't figured out how to attach them to this forum.

Hope you all have a NICE Day!! We are looking forward to racing our E36 in ITS in 2005!!

Just trying to keep the racing FUN!!
Deb

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3D Race Team (1st Year)
Driver: Dave Maynard
Crew: Dan, Larry & Deb
BMW 325i (Red)
#18 ITS

[Bill Miller]

Deb,

Thanks for the info, and by all means, please post those pictures.

Welcome to the IT board!

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Ron Earp]

aa

[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited December 08, 2004).]

[DMaynard]

Bill:

I cannot figure out how to attach pictures to this forum, if you know how let me know your email address and I will email you some of the pictures to you so you can post -- OR explain to me what I am doing wrong.

Thanks!

Deb

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3D Race Team (1st Year)
Driver: Dave Maynard
Crew: Dan, Larry & Deb
BMW 325i (Red)
#18 ITS

[Geo]

Originally posted by DMaynard:
Bill:

I cannot figure out how to attach pictures to this forum, if you know how let me know your email address and I will email you some of the pictures to you so you can post -- OR explain to me what I am doing wrong.

Thanks!

Deb

Deb,

You must host the photo elsewhere. You can like directly to those photos so they show up here by doing the following:

1. Just before the URL of the photo type "http://without the quotes.<br /> <br...oto URL type "" without the quotes.

The image will appear in your post. Repeat as necessary in the post of subsequent posts.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[mlytle]

for a before picture look at post #6 in this thread;
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt...t=rear+subframe

ugly.

[Knestis]

Lacking only factory authorized documentation of the repair...

K

[Ron Earp]

I've got Ed checking the manual, factory manual that is, and I have pics of the M3 suspension front and rear that I will post. Still, those parts seem to be for the body right, not the suspension as shown on the car eariler?

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[MMiskoe]

For sake of argument (and my curiousity) what would the GCR say about an item repaired/replaced/changed via a recall? If BMW had done a full recall on the vehicles and made this repair would it not be acceptable for racecars that missed the dealer doing it get it done too?

BTW what is the cost of a replacement part vrs the cost of this so called factory kit and the labor to install it? Maybe because I've never done anything w/ a BMW dealer, I have never seen a dealer do something the long way. Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't most dealers tend to just replace the part rather than fabricate a repair? My apologies to any dealer service techs who are offended by the idea that most tech's I've met know how to replace parts, but don't spend much (if any) time welding up structural enhancements.

What's the cost of replaceing the part?

How many hours are spent doing the repair?

[lateapex911]

Yup....that seals the deal. (Thanks Deb-) The repair in question has nothing in common, from what I can see, to the "factory" parts and procedures.

(A side note...I liked how, on the AT website, that most of the photos had been viewed about 100 times...but the "After: subframe reinforcement" picture has been viwewed over 300 times! Hmmmmmm!)

It does indeed appear that the body is the issue.

Which makes these cars......

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited December 08, 2004).]

[Geo]

Originally posted by mlytle:
for a before picture look at post #6 in this thread;
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showt...t=rear+subframe

ugly.

For photos of the factory braces:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showp...49&postcount=97

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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[This message has been edited by Geo (edited December 08, 2004).]

[DMaynard]

Mlyte:

Thats a great picture of the before, and basically what I have from our customers cars. It is not a pretty sight when you see it in person.

Geo:

Those pictures of the parts are the correct factory parts that we use when we perform the repairs and the other is what it looks like after repair.

Once I get better with trying to attach photos to this forum, I will post a few. But the links you provided pretty much show the damage that is possible and the proper repair.


I am presently trying to locate the Service Bulletin that explains the repair.

Deb


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3D Race Team (1st Year)
Driver: Dave Maynard
Crew: Dan, Larry & Deb
BMW 325i (Red)
#18 ITS

[JohnRW]

Originally posted by lateapex911:

Which makes these cars......

...red, like a toreador's cape.

Off to my east, I hear the sounds of horns being sharpened.

[Bruce Shafer]

Originally posted by lateapex911:

Which makes these cars......

[/B]

What?

The factory authorized fix for the rear subframe failure is to weld reinforcement plates to the body at the four mounting points above the differential carrier, as shown in the pictures from bimmerforums.

The factory authorized fix for front subframe cracking is to weld reinforcement plates to the front subframe at the motor mount points. The front subframe is what is pictured on the AT website.

[Greg Amy]

...and the differential carrier? Is there another magical "factory authorized" procedure to cover that one, too? I wonder if they can write one to allow sequential gearboxes...

Damn, my old SSA Shelby had less chassis and frame cracks than these glorified pieces of doog poop! Frankly, I think they're far too unsafe to be on the race track with the rest of us...



GregA, also hearing the sounds of sharpening and wondering if JWS is yet sorry to have started this whole mess...and even more sorry to have put it on their web site...

[Bruce Shafer]

Originally posted by GregAmy:
[B]...and the differential carrier? Is there another magical "factory authorized" procedure to cover that one, too?

The differential carrier is the rear subframe. Try and get a bit more informed about the car before continuing to bash it.

Didn't mean to confuse you even though it is so damn easy.

[Greg Amy]

Hey, Bruce, a couple of posts above you stated:

"The factory authorized fix for the rear subframe failure is to weld reinforcement plates to the body at the four mounting points..."

Yet now you've changed your mind to:

"The differential carrier is the rear subframe", which one easily concludes by description and verbiage is a part totally unique from the bodt to which those plates are welded.

Ok, so what is it? Is the "authorized modification" for the body, the chassis, the subframe, the window glass or rear tail lights, or does it make it somehow make it real easy by saying "weld anywhere on the car where it might offer a performance advantage?"

'Course, if one of you guys would be so kind as to actually PRODUCE these documents for all to see, especially given your confidence of its legality (and one would assume you have a copy given your need to prove it) then it would certainly shut up a lot of people, including me ... Too easy?

Somehow, I don't think I'm the one that's confused here, Chief.

[Matt Rowe]

Wait, so if the factory authorized repair can be done as preventative maintenance than we are starting down a very slippery slope. By that logic broken spotwelds can be fix by welding the edges of the body panels. So that means I can seam weld my frame, for safety reasons to prevent spot weld failure. Does anyone else think this is taking too liberal of an interpretation?

And yes I know the ITCS specifically disallows seam welding, but if I say stich weld it than some might intpret that as falling outside of seam welding and under the "factory authorized repair" umbrella.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Matt Rowe:
Wait, so if the factory authorized repair can be done as preventative maintenance than we are starting down a very slippery slope. By that logic broken spotwelds can be fix by welding the edges of the body panels. So that means I can seam weld my frame, for safety reasons to prevent spot weld failure. Does anyone else think this is taking too liberal of an interpretation?

And yes I know the ITCS specifically disallows seam welding, but if I say stich weld it than some might intpret that as falling outside of seam welding and under the "factory authorized repair" umbrella.

A few points if I may.

It would seem to me that factory authorization must be in the form of a TSB. This should be fairly easy to establish. Can anyone think of any other official channel for such a repair that would be acceptable?

Theoretically speaking, I would say if Daimler-Chrysler issued a TSB that said Greg's Charger suffered from poor spot welds and the factory recommended repair were seam welding, that would be legal (it seems to me, pun intended).

I know there are scruitineers here, so what say you about proper documentation?


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[This message has been edited by Geo (edited December 09, 2004).]

[Joe Harlan]

Ok so sometimes in an effort to save a crashed race car certain things need to get welded. I believe the ITCS allows for repairs as close to factory specs as possible. Itcs: 8.h What I do when repairs are made is first take photos of all damage and then of the repairs. I try to stay well within the allowance of the rule. The factory repair pieces on the uni-body in those photos look fine and legal to me, The subframe repairs that stiffen area's of the subframe go far beyond the written rule.