E-36 Restrictor Plate/Andy Bettencourt

[Bill Miller]

100

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[seckerich]

It is like a fox guarding the henhouse but I am a tech steward. "repairs" are to be made as close to original as possible. If the body is to be repaired in these locations you must use the same guage metal as the original and not double sections to add strength. A broken subframe should have the bad mounts cut off and new ones welded on, not gussets to add strength. Cracks are allowed a small overlap for repair in the same way allowances are given for ripped out spot welds to have the seam welded in the same spacing as original spot spacing. Any added metal or welding other than this is considered illegal. Just my two cents worth.

Originally posted by Karl Bocchieri:
A BMW dealer would never spend the man hours to prep and weld a sub frame, they would just put a new one in. RX-7's have a front subframe that is spot welded and can bend, does that mean I can seam weld it, and plate it to strengethen it, to prevent it from breaking?
I think someone in a tech position needs to make a judgenent on this one, or is it going to cost us $25 to find out.

[Karl Bocchieri]

Those pictures were great, and so were the responses. I think we should start a contest for next year, find and take a picture of the most flagrant rule infraction and post it on this site.
I love to hear and see how some people twist and interpret the rules.

And if some one thinks I'm hiding something, bring your camera, and I'll even jack up my car for you.



[This message has been edited by Karl Bocchieri (edited December 12, 2004).]

[Spinnetti]

Soooo reading through some of this, is EVERYBODY on both sides of this a bunch of babies?

I was thinking about building an E36, but now I'm not sure. Adding weight just ruins the brakes.. Doesn't slow things down much. How about some restrictors for the former heads of the class? The RX7? 240? How come those cars weren't slowed down?

The irony is that IT has almost always been a one make class in most of the classes, and the people with money buy the cars that win. I've always been one of the ones doing the best I can in less than the top car, but suddenly everybody wants to knock down the new 'it' car? whats changed? Nobody on the comp board has an E36?

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">whats changed? Nobody on the comp board has an E36?</font>

That's pretty lame, dude.

[Ron Earp]

Originally posted by Spinnetti:
Adding weight just ruins the brakes.. Doesn't slow things down much.

The car is classed at too low of a weight now, and, was classed at a higher weight. Nobody has ever posted how or why the weight was lowered, just that it was. So, if it weighs too much too bad, that is the way it is. And, I bet if it raced anywhere near its curb weight, like the other cars, then nobody would build one - too heavy, too hard on brakes, etc. Every other car in IT has to accept the good with the bad, why should the BMW be different?

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[lateapex911]

I am struck by the sense of "entitlement" (some of) the BMW guys are showing.

Many of us just want a chance at a win, but the feeling I get here is that some E36 guys are PO-ed that they will have to work and develop as hard as the rest of the field to run even up. I'd say they're lucky.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Quickshoe]

Trying to continue to see both sides of the E36 deal...

I still believe the E36 is an overdog. I mean "still" as in "I haven't changed my mind", not "the restrictor isn't enough"...that remains to be seen.

Just because someone builds an E36 doesn't make them winners. It doesn't even give them an unfair advantage. All it takes is one other e36 to show up and they don't have an unfair advantage. It will come down to the better driven, raced and prepared car.

The car to have, never has and never will guarantee anyone a win.

[Quickshoe]

Originally posted by Spinnetti:
How about some restrictors for the former heads of the class? The RX7? 240? How come those cars weren't slowed down?

Your use of the word "FORMER" should answer that question.

[Tristan Smith]

Originally posted by Quickshoe:
Just because someone builds an E36 doesn't make them winners. It doesn't even give them an unfair advantage. All it takes is one other e36 to show up and they don't have an unfair advantage. It will come down to the better driven, raced and prepared car.

The car to have, never has and never will guarantee anyone a win.[/B]

Amen! I bet if someone gave me a fully prepped, top of the line ITS E36, I could make it a midpack racecar!



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Tristan Smith
Buffalo's Southwest Cafe
ITA Nissan 240sx #56

[benspeed]

Basic question - does anybody have an estimate on how much the restrictor plate will cut HP & Torque? I'm yet to be convinced that the plate will be the ruin of the bimmer. Guys will have to just race harder.

[Ron Earp]

I am tempted to do an experiment. I could buy the plate for $25, put it on my old M3 that a buddy has, and dyno it back to back on the dyno that we use here in Durham. Wouldn't be a perfect comparison, but at least it'd show what would happen to an M3 and we could draw some conclusions. Bimmerworld has got to know the answer to this question, I'm sure they've done it already with the 325.

Ron

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
Ford Lightning
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
My electrons don't care if they flow through OEM wires, do yours?

[dspillrat]

Originally posted by rlearp:
I could buy the plate for $25, put it on my old M3 that a buddy has, and dyno it back to back on the dyno that we use here in Durham. Bimmerworld has got to know the answer to this question, I'm sure they've done it already with the 325.
Ron

Ron,
Sounds like a great comparison. I gotta wonder if 56mm? will be effective....
Been kinda quiet from the 325 guys.

David Spillman
Z-car w/2-42mm air restrictors
Moo-techless


[This message has been edited by dspillrat (edited December 22, 2004).]

[ed325its]

I thought it was said here that the CRB has lots of experience with BMW's and restrictor plates and knows the answer to your question.

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Ed Tisdale
#22 ITS '95 325is
Racing BMW's since 1984

[Andy Bettencourt]

The CRB doesn't frequent this board.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[ed325its]

I never said they did.

[Bill Miller]

I asked this early on, but never got an answer. Sooooo, I'll ask it again. What's the stock bore of the BMW TB?

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Andy Bettencourt]

Ed,

You imply that the CRB either has the information and won't answer on this board OR that they don't have it at all.

Either way, they don't know that the question has been asked because they aren't here every day.

Andy

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
I asked this early on, but never got an answer. Sooooo, I'll ask it again. What's the stock bore of the BMW TB?

According to the information we have, it's 60mm for the cars in question...



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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX

[kthomas]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
I am struck by the sense of "entitlement" (some of) the BMW guys are showing.

Many of us just want a chance at a win, but the feeling I get here is that some E36 guys are PO-ed that they will have to work and develop as hard as the rest of the field to run even up. I'd say they're lucky.

Sorry, should have caught this earlier. Some of us didn't just fall off the turnip truck into a BMW and start winning. Some of us did stuff like researched the class and built 240Z's when Z's were winning. Then we threw away practically brand new motors after SCCA decided anti-friction coatings were taboo after specifically approving them the year before. But we developed and made up for it. Then we threw away practically brand new remote reservior shocks after SCCA decided they were taboo after being okay the year before. Then we developed and made up for it. Then we threw away practically brand new 240Z's when E36's started blowing our doors off on the straights. And we bought E36's and they suck until you develop them to where they stick and stop and don't blow up when you overrev them by 10rpm, and made up for it. So our reward is a restrictor, which we will develop around and make up for it. Etc.

I'm not at all "po'ed" that I might have to "work and develop as hard as the rest of the field". I can handle that and usually do. I get po'ed when I have to redevelop to keep up with SCCA's rule changes. They've cost me way more money over the years than my competitors have.

Now, that was all somewhat tongue-in-cheek but my point is just because somebody is running a BMW and winning doesn't mean they haven't also earned it.

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katman