Weight added to BMW e36

[jcmotorsports]

rob
rx7s in the northeast with more than $12000 invested: speedworkz#13(blue/white rx7 driven by marc cefalo), speedworkz#93(orange/white driven by mike cefalo)and my car #87(red/white) have significantly more than that invested. marc is pretty fast, but has been racing a national cat for the last 2 seasons. mike and i are slower, but still mid-pack. i just started driving last season so i plan on doing some advanced race schools to develope my driving. after that i plan on running up front!!
john costello

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by robits325is:
> Someone is a $60,000 BMW should dominate

So much for 'low cost' and 'inexpensive'. Is it just me, or does anybody else think that $60k cars ($40k for that matter) have no business in IT?


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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[GKR_17]

Originally posted by Super Swift:

Northern Pacific
Randy Evans

North-east
Kip VanSteenburg
Mike Carr

South-east
Buzz Marcus
Chris Brubaker
Kent Thompson
Kevin Busler
Steve Eckerich
Marc Dana
Scott Richards
Mike VanSteenburg
Fred Ricart

Mid-West
Al Murdock

Don't forget Rob May and Jeff Hill.

Grafton

[RSTPerformance]

Bill I agree 100%... The original IT was for regular guys/gals to go racing... Don't get me wrong I do like where it has gone but it isn't the same. I hope that ITB and ITC never get nearly as expensive as ITS or even ITA. (you can still spend $10,000 or less to run a full season (with repairs), and win in ITB and I would imagine ITC as well)

Raymond

[cherokee]

ITB and ITC will get as expensive. As newer cars come in they will get more expensive. The only reason that they are less expensive is that they are "dinosaur" classes. And please do not tell me that people will not shell out big $$ to make a slow car go fast, the desire to win is still there.

[seckerich]

I feel that I have as well "developed" an RX7 as anyone and I was pulled 15+ carlengths out of Oak Tree at VIR when I was ahead going in. This same BMW was 100+ pound over min weight at impound so weight will need to be PLENTY. Restrictors on the E36 will be a joke unless it is pretty small as they are limited by valve size and the intake system is huge overkill. After you pass the same car every lap only to have them drive into the sunset on the straights is not racing--it is a parade. As for lap records--not all BMW's have drivers as good as those that set the records in the RX7. Good driver + BMW = lap record. Check VIR

[JeffG]

Yup, 15+ car lengths at Road America straights 1 and 2 by an E36 with a bimmerworld motor.

It's like running with slow AS and GT 3+ cars that can blow by in the straights.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Super Swift:
Andy

I think I can name a few real fast RX-7 drivers other than Nick.

Northern Pacific
Randy Evans

North-east
Kip VanSteenburg
Mike Carr

South-east
Buzz Marcus
Chris Brubaker
Kent Thompson
Kevin Busler
Steve Eckerich
Marc Dana
Scott Richards
Mike VanSteenburg
Fred Ricart

Mid-West
Al Murdock

This is just a few there are still several more that merit mention.

The RX-7, 240Z, and the e36 should all get the same amount of weight if any is to be added.

No disrespect to any of those drivers intended. I was speaking specifically to Rob about his series, the NERRC/NARRC.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by robits325is:


A few years ago Kip VanSteenberg won in the North East with his super-bimmer 325is - but does he have any track records? He was faster up here in his RX-7 than his BMW.

Of LRP and NHIS, he only ran LRP which is a known momentum track. In that time, I think kip lost *ONCE* at LRP, to another BMW.

Nick and I talk often about the times we think he could've run in the E36 at NHIS.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[lateapex911]

So, lets talk numbers:
E36: 225+ at the wheels, 2850 lbs, very good sups/handling, great torque and the ability to put it down.

RX-7: 175+- at the wheels, very good susp handling, 2530 lbs, torque deficient.

P/W ratios: E36- 12.66, RX-7- 14.45

In my mind it comes down to these two cars....the RX-7 is the best of the rest, although the Z car can still get it done...but their numbers are dwindling.

So, from a pure numbers equation, the BMW wins the HP battle, the torque battle, (by a MILE) and the P/W ratio, is close or ties in handling and braking, and is slightly inferior aerodynamically, which is not that big of an issue, and only then at limited tracks.

If the above assumptions are correct, then a properly developed, adjusted, and driven E36 SHOULD be in front of an equally prepped and driven 7...right???

Oh yea...one more thing...I've heard the stories about guys "developing" their car to the tune of $60K, or $75K, even $100K.....but spending money isn't hard if you have it...spending it wisely and effectively is the trick.

We all know that it doen't cost $60K to run in the front of ITS, if you know what to get, and how to spend the money.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited October 23, 2004).]

[seckerich]

Your HP numbers are close but figure 235+ for the BMW and 175+ for the RX7. However the RX7 runs at 2680 so your hp to weight is off.

[seckerich]

Your HP numbers are close but figure 235+ for the BMW and 175+ for the RX7. However the RX7 runs at 2680 so your hp to weight is off.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Jake was talking WHP, your RX-7 number is on but even the wildest estimations don't have the BMW at 235whp.

My research has the full-bore, no expense spared versions at between 215 and 220whp.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[lateapex911]

oops...read the wrong line, sorry! My bad.

But...it makes the ratio even worse! Even with the lower BMW estimate that Andy mentioned, it's still a big gulf.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Bruce Shafer]

Double post.


[This message has been edited by Bruce Shafer (edited October 27, 2004).]

[Bruce Shafer]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
My research has the full-bore, no expense spared versions at between 215 and 220whp.

AB

What does your research consist of? Reading other threads on this forum?

Try 190 RWH for the E36 325i M50 in IT trim.

[Greg Amy]

Hey, Bruce, grab your checkbook and give James Clay a call...

[its66]

deleted

[This message has been edited by its66 (edited October 27, 2004).]

[Bruce Shafer]

Originally posted by GregAmy:
Hey, Bruce, grab your checkbook and give James Clay a call...

James already has my first born!

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Bruce Shafer:
James already has my first born!

Throw in your second born and get the good stuff!

Seriously, if you have a relationship with James, ask him what a no-expense spared set-up can produce.

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
ITS RX-7 and ITA project SM
www.flatout-motorsports.com