Weight added to BMW e36

RR · 10-19-2004, 04:19 PM

I noticed a few months back, there was an article in SportsCar basically saying the BMW was an over-acheiver in ITS. Since that article, PCA's have been approved, and there is no mention officially that the minimum weight has increased, or did I miss something?

**Geo** · 10-19-2004, 04:24 PM

You haven't missed anything.

------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

**GKR_17** · 10-19-2004, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by RR:
I noticed a few months back, there was an article in SportsCar basically saying the BMW was an over-acheiver in ITS.

Interestingly enough, that article did not give any factual evidence to support that claim. And it seems that all of the regional results are conveniently omitted from Sportscar as well now.

Grafton

**Jake** · 10-19-2004, 06:21 PM

According to a second-hand unnamed source:

"they are evidently recommending adding a BUNCH of weight to the E-36 ITS Bimmers."

from the same source on an unrelated issue:

"very interested in getting some equitable solution for the MR2's. There is a possibility we may get it classed into ITB at somewhere around 2500#."

**lateapex911** · 10-19-2004, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Jake:
According to a second-hand unnamed source:

"

Ooooo....very cloak and dagger!

Ok, lets start a pool. I'm in for 275. And I'm betting they talked realy seriously about 175 but with a restrictor, but decided against it cuz they didn't want to go there, and the weight is so much easier to check.

Winner gets ...well, we'll figure that out later.

Maybe Gregg will kick in an Isaac T shirt or something!

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

**Bill Miller** · 10-20-2004, 06:40 AM

Not trying to 'Price is Right' you Jake, but I was thinking 250# a while ago. Make it an even 3100#.

------------------
MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

**dspillrat** · 10-20-2004, 09:42 AM

Hmmm....

Having a 3100- 3200 pound car running with my 2400# zcar is a somewhat concerning to me...I'm not one to do a lot of bumping, but the nudgability factor has got to be considered....
Restrictor and 100 pounds might not be so bad....but who will be knowledgable enough to determine a effective restriction, and shoot straight enough to share this info with rule makers and non 325 drivers.
Plus, what is the aero factor?..I got a filling the E36/46 is a slick puppy sitting low on the track, in IT trim. Top speed is where I've seen big difference, weight won't affect terminal velocity a whole lot..IMHO
David Spillman

**SPiFF** · 10-20-2004, 10:09 AM

Probably opening a can of worms, but I don’t see anything wrong with the E36 in ITS—it is the rest of the cars which need help. Why do cars making 150-200 WHP need to weight 2700-3200lbs? Why should half of ITA run all over half of ITS? Give the rest of S some legs. Pull some weight off the rest of the cars and class these:

E30 M3, 300ZX NA, Supra NA, 3000GT/Stealth NA, Lexus IS300, GS300, SC300, Acura RSX-S, Celica GTS, Acura TSX, 1980s-ish 911, etc.

------------------
Zsolt - #18 H3 GSR
http://www.SouthEastHondaChallenge.com

[This message has been edited by SPiFF (edited October 20, 2004).]

**Tom Donnelly** · 10-20-2004, 10:31 AM

I agreee with David. And it seems to me the BMW has some distinct disadvantages that just adding weight might worsen. Like tires going away towards the end of a race. Nothing like getting slammed by 3100 lbs of ungainly BMW that just wore out its tires on the last lap. JMHO. Its bad enough being hit by an RX7 while in a 240z, the BMW would be like getting hit by my tow vehicle.

Tom

**JIgou** · 10-20-2004, 10:55 AM

300.

**Bruce Shafer** · 10-20-2004, 11:14 AM

0, zero, none, zilch...

**its66** · 10-20-2004, 12:54 PM

Just your unbiased opinion, right Bruce?

Jim
ITS66
(yep..mazda)

**Bruce Shafer** · 10-20-2004, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by its66:
Just your unbiased opinion, right Bruce?

Jim
ITS66
(yep..mazda)

Yes, that was my unbiased opinion.

My biased opinion is that the E36 needs to lose at least 100 pounds, perhaps twice that amount.

**erlrich** · 10-20-2004, 03:29 PM

Hell, I think they should just make them bolt an ITA MR2 (with driver) to the roof - that would raise the CG and CD (but only slightly) at the same time. We could kill two birds with one stone - the BMWs would occasionally loose, and the MR2 guys would start winning, and would quit bitching about moving to B!

JMHO of course...

------------------
Earl R
Aspiring 240SX pilot

**gsbaker** · 10-20-2004, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by lateapex911:
...Maybe Gregg will kick in an Isaac T shirt or something!

T-shirt? Pffft. How about one of the new Isaac hats?

"ISAAC: For the head worth keeping"

We'll have the first samples tomorrow.

------------------
Gregg Baker, P.E.
Isaac, LLC
http://www.isaacdirect.com

**BUMPnGO** · 10-20-2004, 05:12 PM

How's this for a new Isaacs T-shirt slogan: "You can always make more money, but you can't buy a new HEAD!!"

**x-ring** · 10-20-2004, 05:37 PM

...but who will be knowledgable enough to determine a effective restriction, and shoot straight enough to share this info with rule makers and non 325 drivers.

Good question. Maybe we could ask some of those SSB Miata drivers who got their butts handed to them at the Runoffs by the Z4's with plates in place. Or maybe we could ask the member of the CRB who won a national race in Denver this summer (in SS

while racing with his A/C on and his restrictor plate in place. Yeah, I'm sure we would get good info there.

Seriously, do plates really work that well at leveling the field? I understand that they work well for limiting top speed. That's well documented. But what about low speed torque? The torque that lets you pull out of the corner. It sure didn't look that way to me.

Why do cars making 150-200 WHP need to weight 2700-3200lbs?

I don't know about the 3000lb cars, I don't drive one, but quite a few cars are at or over minimum weight now with no ballast and nothing left to remove. Reducing their spec line weight is meaningless.

------------------
Ty Till
#16 ITS
Rocky Mountain Division

**Jake** · 10-20-2004, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by erlrich:
Hell, I think they should just make them bolt an ITA MR2 (with driver) to the roof - that would raise the CG and CD (but only slightly) at the same time. We could kill two birds with one stone - the BMWs would occasionally loose, and the MR2 guys would start winning, and would quit bitching about moving to B!

JMHO of course...

LOL!!! Can I hold the checker?!?

BTW - They bolted on 250lbs onto the Neon when they moved it from ITS - ITA, so I wouldn't be all that surprised to see a BUNCH of weight added.

And as for heavy and light cars on the track together? Give me a break. What about those Piggy Beetles in ITC? The ITS Supra weighs in at 3380, and they just classed the stratus at 3000. I'd be more worried about the Hummers on the street when you drive home.

**JeffG** · 10-20-2004, 06:40 PM

E36 gets 175 , or 100 + restrictor
RX7 gets 70 lbs

**Geo** · 10-20-2004, 06:49 PM

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">My biased opinion is that the E36 needs to lose at least 100 pounds, perhaps twice that amount. </font>

No problem.

We'll require you to run w/o wheels and tires.

------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[This message has been edited by Geo (edited October 20, 2004).]

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