headlight tape

[racer_tim]

And while we're at it, what about the heater core? Yes, I do realize that some of you race where you might need the defroster, but if the car can make weight, why not loose the heater core?

We lost the passenger seat a few years ago, maybe now it's time to ask to remove the glass and ..................

If you don't ask, you'll never get told no.

[Knestis]

No.

If it isn't dangerous enough to require SS and Touring cars to remove headlights (or heater cores), then it isn't sufficiently dangerous to warrant us doing so...

K

[Geo]

Originally posted by racer_tim:
And while we're at it, what about the heater core?

Yes. And then the windshield washer bottle. Then all the glass to be replaced by Lexan. Oh, and why do we need those silly dash boards? Hmmm.... I'm sure there are more things we can do without just the the big boy Production cars.

Oh, I know! We can get rid of those unsafe plastic tail lights and replace them with little disco tracer lights....

OK, OK, I'm being naughty again. Just for Mr. Bill.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[racer-025]

easy now....all we did was remove the headlights.

[Geo]

Originally posted by racer-025:
easy now....all we did was remove the headlights.

Today, the headlights....

Tomorrow, the washer bottle!



------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[GKR_17]

Originally posted by Geo:
Tomorrow, the washer bottle!

Are you implying that they aren't already gone?

[DavidM]

I'm new to this stuff, so take it easy on me. Are catalytic converters required in IT? I haven't read through the rule book yet, but I get the impression they aren't from discussions here. If they aren't then.....

I live in the metro Atlanta area where we get inspections every year and are required to have catalytic converters on our cars. So by removing the catalytic converter to make a race car I no longer have a street legal car. Now, I could leave the cat on, but I'd be making way less horsepower. So if I no longer have a street legal car anyways why not remove all the "street" stuff I no longer need.

Ah, but I can't because the rules don't allow it. It seems that many of the IT rules are there to allow someone to actually drive their race car to the track. I'm not sure how often this occurs, but ok. I've seen it mentioned several times, however, that just because you can compete does not guarantee you'll be competitive. It seems unfair for all the cars to have to be held to the "street legal" standard just because the class allows for people to drive their cars to the track. To me, it would make sense to allow people to remove certain things from their cars if they wanted (or replace them with a metal plate in the case of headlights). That list of things would have to be determined of course, but that's why there's a rules body. And I don't buy the one thing leads to another argument. Determine the list and re-evaluate it every so often.

Just trying to learn the ropes.

David

[Diane]

Originally posted by DavidM:

I live in the metro Atlanta area where we get inspections every year and are required to have catalytic converters on our cars. So by removing the catalytic converter to make a race car I no longer have a street legal car.

If IT was conceived pre-mid-70's, cats were not common anyway. I'd bet the majority of cars first classed never came with cats anyway. I'd also bet removing cats was a common "street tuner" mod back in the day, as it is now, though highly illegal.

Easy solution if you need to get your car inspected. Pull off your street exhaust and save it for when you need to go through inspection. On the Escorts, replacing the exhaust from the header back is easier than swapping the suspension out for the winter, a task I am currently avoiding.

My .02

Diane
ITB Escort GT
NER #21



[This message has been edited by Diane (edited November 05, 2004).]

[Knestis]

Originally posted by DavidM:
... It seems unfair for all the cars to have to be held to the "street legal" standard just because the class allows for people to drive their cars to the track. To me, it would make sense to allow people to remove certain things from their cars if they wanted (or replace them with a metal plate in the case of headlights). ...

Another way to look at it is that "fair" is averyone adhering to the same set of rules - regardless of what they are.

A lot of the push for removal of things like washer bottles is - I think - driven by some sense of what a race car is "supposed to be." Real race cars don't have rear wipers so we should all be allowed to take them out, etc.

The point is that, while it is completely arbitrary that headers are OK but you have to keep your side window glass, it is a set of rules that we can all follow. If the line defining the IT preparation level is moved incrementally closer and closer to, say Production, then it gets incrementally more and more expensive to stay with the state of the art.

I like my headlights and I might be less likely to crash into the back of someone else's car if I still have them installed.

K

[DavidM]

I definitely like the idea of "fair" being everyone adhering to a certain set of rules, but I find some of the rules, shall we say, quirky.

For instance:

- You have to retain the stock dash, but you can remove every other interior panel as well as the seats
- You can do various things to the engine like "alter" ECUs, swap carb jets, and overbore (on some cars), but you have to retain the stock headlights, water bottle, heater core (at least I think it was implied this had to be kept), and various other extraneous things

I personally like things simple. So the more crap I don't need that I can take off the car the better. It's less stuff to get in the way. Removing stuff is mostly free, so it doesn't add much if any cost. I say mostly, because you may incur some costs for things such as metal panels for the headlight openings and other odds and ends. As for making the car more "race car" like......It IS a race car. It may not be an F1 car, but the intention is still to race the car on a track.

I'm sure there are reasons behind every rule (maybe only historical in some cases), but some of the rules sure seem weird to someone new to the class.

David

[jc836]

For those wondering-a Catalytic Convertor of the aftermarket "high flow" variety is very efficient and does NOT reduce horsepower output as much as some might think. Many years ago Hot Rod Mag ran a series of tests to determine what exhausts would work best and found that the cat only robbed 2HP on a small block Chevy. Just a thought....

Now to removing it for the track-that is a reasonable idea. For those who drive the car there-don't do it. I elected to leave the cat on the CRX as it benefits me as to dB level. In addition, the car was street legal when the race exhaust was fabricated.
I believe, as do others, that the class was created for those who wanted to use a street legal car on track in a competitive environment. The reality is that many cars become trailered as mine is now. One needs a consistent, long term set of rules or the class will be useless in the end. The IT rules as written are easily followed even if we disagree with what they are. Sure I want to rid the car of the washer bottle and rear wiper-but the rules say stock so that is how it is. Here in the North East on a cool morning the heater can be helpful-but not in 90 degree summer weather-but the rules say leave the core alone.
Just my 2 cents

------------------
Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow

[Knestis]

I'm thinking that a "racing" cat is going to end up being my only "muffler" on the Golf, since I want to maintain its multi-purpose qualities. It also saves me having to diddle with o2 sensors...

K

[Geo]

Originally posted by DavidM:
I personally like things simple. So the more crap I don't need that I can take off the car the better. It's less stuff to get in the way. Removing stuff is mostly free, so it doesn't add much if any cost. I say mostly, because you may incur some costs for things such as metal panels for the headlight openings and other odds and ends. As for making the car more "race car" like......It IS a race car. It may not be an F1 car, but the intention is still to race the car on a track.

Not to be a smarty pants, but it sounds like Limited Prep Production would be ideal for you then.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Geo]

Originally posted by jc836:
For those wondering-a Catalytic Convertor of the aftermarket "high flow" variety is very efficient and does NOT reduce horsepower output as much as some might think. Many years ago Hot Rod Mag ran a series of tests to determine what exhausts would work best and found that the cat only robbed 2HP on a small block Chevy. Just a thought....

Sport Compact Car tested a Nissan 240SX with a Random Technology cat and with a "test pipe." They found absolute NO change in hp, and max torque actually decreased one ft/lb with the "test pipe."


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[dickita15]

while not in favor of rules creep I agree thet simple is better. I really think the dual purpose excuse is overstated, the number of streetable IT cars is small and the number of fully preped streetable cars is even lower. I would not to make the rules more coplicated that they have to be to make these few cars street legal.
dick

[cherokee]

We started asking about tape and I need to tape up the lights on my Opel...even though they are hidden. What do you use. On the MR2 I used some 3M stuff (I don't remember what) that got flakey and cloudy after a little while. What do you guys use that will not turn yellow-ish after a couple of weekends in the sun.

[badal]

Originally posted by cherokee:
We started asking about tape and I need to tape up the lights on my Opel...even though they are hidden. What do you use. On the MR2 I used some 3M stuff (I don't remember what) that got flakey and cloudy after a little while. What do you guys use that will not turn yellow-ish after a couple of weekends in the sun.

Vinyl tape like the sign makers use is great and won't degrade and give you the "mummy look" that duct tape will.

BTW only "exposed"lights must be taped, so the hidden lights are OK.


------------------
"Bad" Al Bell
ITC #3 Datsun 510
DC Region MARRS Series

[ITANorm]

Originally posted by badal:
BTW only "exposed"lights must be taped, so the hidden lights are OK.

Oh, gee - that means I've got an extra .5 oz. of extra weight on the front of my MR2. No wonder it's slow!

[Grumpa]

I started this string, so I'll throw some more fuel on the fire. The Rabbit I bought had been raced in CenDiv the previous year, so it had a tech sticker. As purchased, the washer bottle is out of the car and the motor mounts are urethane. How illegal is the car? Also, in reading the GCR, it states that the seat shall be firmly attached to the structure of the car. Is the cage considered to be a part of the structure of the car? I mounted my seat to the cage, my twisted logic in this case being that in the event of a hard driver side impact, I would prefer to move with the cage, as opposed to the cage moving into me. I also see modified front drive spindles with oversize bearings advertised for sale for VW IT cars. If VW did not manufacture these pieces, how are they legal in IT? My pea brain has a hard time processing some of the nuances.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Grumpa:
I started this string, so I'll throw some more fuel on the fire. The Rabbit I bought had been raced in CenDiv the previous year, so it had a tech sticker. As purchased, the washer bottle is out of the car and the motor mounts are urethane. How illegal is the car?

Well, the car is illegal in at least two ways.

Originally posted by Grumpa:
I also see modified front drive spindles with oversize bearings advertised for sale for VW IT cars. If VW did not manufacture these pieces, how are they legal in IT? My pea brain has a hard time processing some of the nuances.

Those would not be legal.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com