Wiring Harness

[Ron Earp]

I almost hate to open this topic after Cherokee tried, but I'm sort of stuck and need guidance.

My Jensen Healey is now 31 years old and I'm working on making it into an ITS car. That said, it is in reasonable shape and I think once together and debugged it will be competitive with a decent driver (I'm a novice, so that isn't me!).

I'm working on wiring now and of course, being a British car and old, the wiring is shot. Too many previous owners, too many years, thus very little works.

There are no replacement harnesses. They are not made any more and anything you can find is a pull-out from a car and 30 years old. My car has the factory harness and I am leaving it in the car.

But, is it reasonable to assume that in order to get say the brakes to work I can run a wire back to the brakes from the pedal, alongside the melted and mangled mess of the old harness? Ditto starter, ignition, and a few other useful items? I can hardly find two wires that have continuity from front to back in this thing, and, I still fear shorts and fire. Don't get me wrong, the mechanics of the car are okay and will be safe, but wiring was never a British strong point - I've a healthy respect of electrical fires in Brit cars!

The way I read the rule book is that yes, I can do this to get my car functional. But, I'm completely new to the game and don't want to do something that will get the car failed in tech or protested. Not a good way to start off or to make new friends.

Ron

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[lateapex911]

I will answer your question from two viewpoints...

Legally I think you are fine, and I'm confident enough to not consult my GCR. Of course, I'm just a bunch of bits and bites that wants to help out, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

My other angle is more touchy feely...If I saw that your car had the stock wiring, and some extra wires, I would know that you were trying, and that you had a good attitude. You wouldn't get anything from me but praise, regardless of legality.

I can't see this as a performance advantage either, so as far as I'm concerned, have at it.

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited August 22, 2004).]

[Geo]

Actually, by my reading of the rulebook, this is not legal. What you are allowed to do is to repair your wiring harness, not replace it with something else (even if you leave the old one in place).


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Ron Earp]

Obviously, hoping for a concensus is probably a little far-fetched here given some of the discussions I've seen on wiring and the recent rollcage thing.

Maybe I should ask another question: Are there any cars running in IT, that have passed tech and routinely race, that have additional wires controlling equipment in the cars?

If I have to replace/rebuild the original harness then it wouldn't be that bad, but, what I'd end up with is a very simple harness that controls basic functions - because that is all the car had from the factory! But, I'd essentially be building a harness as what is there is not repairable.

Ron

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by rlearp:

Maybe I should ask another question: Are there any cars running in IT, that have passed tech and routinely race, that have additional wires controlling equipment in the cars?

Ron

Um....yeah..all over the place.

I guess I stand corrected on the absolute legality of the issue, sorry!

But don't forget that tech isn't concerned with legality per se'. Do your best, and you should be fine...IMHO.

Still, I would be shocked if anyone ever said anything...even if you take the gold atthe ARRCs!



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

tech is for safety, its up to your competitors to allow you to run a car that dosnt quite fit the letter of thr gcr. I got my annual sticker with the stock harness at home 20 miles away in a box where it belongs IMHO.

[lateapex911]

errr...sorry dbl post...

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited August 22, 2004).]

[Ron Earp]

If that is the case, then I opt for safety. I won't be taking any titles, of that I'm certain, and I'd rather be safe than on fire. I don't think anyone would protest that. But, I want to be legal so there are no concerns.

I know some would raise the question why race the car if you think it has problems?

That isn't it. Mechanically the car is fine, the wiring is just no where near modern technology. In fact, it wasn't even modern for 1970s. I'm afraid that it wouldn't be reliable period. The harness and connectors are not even as good as domestic iron in the 70s, it is on par with VW stuff from the 60s, which originated long before that. In short, not good. I think I will try and leave it, but I won't try and use it except when I can find a wire or connection that works.

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[dickita15]

go ahead and add the seven wires it takes to race the car and just leave the old harnness in place. I belive it is legal and if if others i respect disagree it is at least defenceable using 17.1.4.D.1.e, D.3.c and D.9.c.

I know i can change my ignition wires that is adressed. i know i can add my cooling fan wire that is adressed. I can change and move my fuel pump so i must be able to run a wire to the new location. i know I can rewire from the battery in order to add a kill switch. I assume i can add my transponder. the hardest ones to defend are the brake lights, wipers and defroster. and that is the entire race car.
I know with more modern cars there is concern about rules creap and unintended benifits from bypassing the harness but with older carb cars we just want to not burn them to the ground.
dick patullo

[joeg]

Lucas electrical systems don't have many wires (and fewer fuses...) Go ahead!!!

[Mark LaBarre]

In my mind, running another wire along side the damaged harness is a repair. As long as you don't remove the harness, I think your meeting the intent of the rules.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Mark LaBarre:
In my mind, running another wire along side the damaged harness is a repair. As long as you don't remove the harness, I think your meeting the intent of the rules.

1) Running a new wire and leaving the old in place is indeed a repair, but unless it is called out to do this in the FSM or a factory bulletin, it is not legal.

2) Intent is not important except for creating and writing rules. What matters is the written rule.

This is all of course assuming you want to have a legal car.



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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Ron Earp]

This one looks to be going the way of Cherokee's eariler thread, so I'll end the discussion now.

Of course, very little is available for wiring and repair documentation on the car. So, Geo's comment regarding factory repair procedures are long gone, as are probably most of the factory workers from that era.

I will run repair wires for the car to get it operable and safe. Obviously, these wires will not be the exact same gauge, color, material, nor precise placement as the originals (good question - if you cannot repair the wire with EXACT original wire, then is it legal or not? On second though, ignore that question). Therefore, according to Geo's interpretation the car will not be legal. So be it, that is out in the open now and if you see the car next year you'll know the story.

It doesn't appear that I have much of a choice. If I make the harness, by the book it will not be a proscribed factory repair procedure since there isn't any. Ditto patching it, since it isn't going to be exact. Therefore, I've made the decision and think I pretty much just have to make it work, by hook or crook.

I just didn't want the thread to turn into a tirade as a couple of other rules questions.

Thanks for the help,
Ron

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!


[This message has been edited by rlearp (edited August 23, 2004).]

[Geo]

Originally posted by rlearp:
Of course, very little is available for wiring and repair documentation on the car. So, Geo's comment regarding factory repair procedures are long gone, as are probably most of the factory workers from that era.

I will run repair wires for the car to get it operable and safe. Obviously, these wires will not be the exact same gauge, color, material, nor precise placement as the originals (good question - if you cannot repair the wire with EXACT original wire, then is it legal or not? On second though, ignore that question). Therefore, according to Geo's interpretation the car will not be legal. So be it, that is out in the open now and if you see the car next year you'll know the story.

That's a nice rationalization. I'm not trying to beat on you, but I assume you asked the question because you wanted to remain legal.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Ron Earp]

And I do, hence the question. I approach this the way I approach most things, I want to do it right. It is just in the confines of the rulebook getting this car on the track correctly seems to be impossible with a strict interpretation.

Some might say, well, get another car or don't race something that old, etc. However, if this attitude was taken I'm afraid IT, in concept, would not be all that interesting. There is something cool about the throught of having a field of dissimilar cars running about the same track together.

At least, it is cool when you think about the strengths and weaknesses of various motors, chassis, etc. It is not cool if they are dissimilar, say, in the way that some have a propensity to burn to the ground due to faulty electrics. That is what I'm trying to avoid.

Ron

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[ITSRX7]

I want to see some pics of that Healey - now!!

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Andy Bettencourt
ITS RX-7 & Spec Miata 1.6 (ITA project)
New England Region R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited August 23, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by ITSRX7 (edited August 23, 2004).]

[Ron Earp]

My helper:

http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/100_0141.JPG

Car four weeks ago
http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/100_0153.JPG

http://www.gt40s.com/images/jensen/100_0154.JPG

I'll post some others here tonight. Notice the wires hanging around - the whole damn car is like that. Someone has hacked pieces and splices into everything on the car - red, yellow, blue, white, green, wires all over. The dash is out now and the interior is prepped (primered) although it is far from pretty since the metal surfaces were very rough.

Ron

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey: IT prep progressing!

[Knestis]

I think that I'd be tempted to get some self-sealing waterproof butt splices and start REPLACING those wires rather than running parallel pieces. Start at a known point and follow each wire with a new one, splicing it in as close to the OE connector as possible.

Of course, this assumes that the connectors are not suspect...

FWIW - and appropos of nothing - I repaired a faulty (but not shorted) vehicle speed sensor wire in the Golf by running a parallel wire outside of the stock harness. Eventually, when I open up the harnesses to get serious about weeding out circuits for optional stuff not on the base car, I'll address it for real but that's how it's going to work for now.

K

[John Herman]

Ron, If you could make from scratch with 100% new components a complete wiring harness which is close to the factory harness in routing, wiring gage, etc., I say do that as opposed to splicing and hacking the old bits and pieces. You will have a hard enough time on the learning curve and diagnosing wiring issues at a race should not be one of them. Keep everything clean and professional looking, and you shouldn't have a problem. Keep the old wiring harness(es) in a bag, on the trailer, for documentation purposes.

[Geo]

Originally posted by rlearp:
And I do, hence the question. I approach this the way I approach most things, I want to do it right. It is just in the confines of the rulebook getting this car on the track correctly seems to be impossible with a strict interpretation.

Trust me. I understand. I have a 20 year old German car that was put together with tape and glue. The wiring harness is a mess compared with what I'm used to.

I think someone else gave you a legal out that would require minimal rebuilding of your current wiring harness.

I am installing 100% aftermarket gauges in my car. I can wire them as I see fit. I have removed a number of items that are allowed to be removed. The ends of each wire will be shrink wrapped and groups will be further shrink wrapped.

Basically I will be left with the HVAC, lighting, and power windows (yes, I've kept all windows for convenience of towing/security), and of course the engine controls (including fuel pump). I think the trick is to figure out those things that are unneeded and isolate them. You can really cut down on any possible rewiring that may be necessary. That's my take.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com