IT Car classifications now online w/stock HP

[Greg Gauper]

Lines 252 & 254.

They use the same motor.

[Joe Craven]

Jake, here are some requested updates.
line 107, hp of the V6s were about 105 (2.6 was 106(8) and early 2.8 was 105


line 157 Capri Stock hp was 100hp in 1971. It dropped by the 1974 year but... it doesn't matter.

[Quickshoe]

Thanks JAKE!

[Jake]

No problem. All updates up to here are in.

[Eagle7]

Line 30
ITS 86-91 RX-7 stock HP = 160.

------------------
Marty Doane
ITS RX-7 #13
CenDiv WMR

[MMiskoe]

for quick comparisons, it is really easy to just take stock flywheel #'s and call them wheel numbers. 15% loss through the driveline = 15% flywheel gain through IT mods. Not exact, but you're never going to get exact numbers. Skewed for the Wankels wankers, they respond much better to exhaust mods than the up & down guys.

Nice work.

[Mike Spencer]

Originally posted by MMiskoe:
...Skewed for the Wankels wankers, they respond much better to exhaust mods than the up & down guys.

Nice work.

Jake -

No "mods", but thanks ALOT for going to the trouble! (I always knew there was SOMETHING wrong, with me. I just never realized I was skewed! )


------------------
Mike Spencer
NC Region
1986 RX-7 Build In-Progress
1990 RX-7 Convertible In-Driveway

[924Guy]

Yow! I'm sure glad I checked in - you've got the ITS output listed in ITA for me. Line 122, the ITA (2.0L) 924 makes 115hp stock. The ITS 924S (2.5L) is listed correctly at 158hp.

Cheers,

------------------
Vaughan Scott
Detroit Region #280052
'79 924 #77 ITA/GTS1
www.vaughanscott.com

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by MMiskoe:
for quick comparisons, it is really easy to just take stock flywheel #'s and call them wheel numbers. 15% loss through the driveline = 15% flywheel gain through IT mods. Not exact, but you're never going to get exact numbers. Skewed for the Wankels wankers, they respond much better to exhaust mods than the up & down guys.

Nice work.

Here's the problem with that kind of thinking....

A few examples...the Honda guys know that some models gain big, while others are just stones, no matter what you do to them.

My RX-7 for example came with 100 HP from the factory, and can make (reportedly) 123 or so at the wheels. (It realy needs the exhaust mods...it is choked in stock form) Off the top of my head, that's about a 23% gain. But note that it is crank (SAE) vs. WHP...

The CRX had, what 108 at the crank stock? And puts down 126 or so at the wheels. Thats about 17% or so. Again, crank vs. WHP.

The E-36 ...stock, SAE crank is 189... WHP is 223. Thats 18%...(and crank improvement is more like 32%.... )

And note that if we were talking crank SAE vs. crank SAE, the gains would be even stronger.

Now other cars are not such over acheivers, and after all the mods, and the drivetrain tricks, end up putting down numbers close to stock, which is a gain to be sure, but a much lesser gain.

It is just not safe to assume that you can apply a single factor and have any real idea of whats actually happening.

The bottom line though, is, on the track, stock numbers don't really matter...whats coming out of the tire tread is what counts.


------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited June 08, 2004).]

[Jake]

Jake - nobody is disputing the fact that stock HP isn't going to perfectly relate to WHP. While it's not gospel, it is important information that is undisputable and we can get for all cars. Please lets try to keep editorializing to a minimum in this thread - we can open another one to debate. Keep the correction/additions coming. All updates in to this point.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Jake:
Jake - nobody is disputing the fact that stock HP isn't going to perfectly relate to WHP. While it's not gospel, it is important information that is undisputable and we can get for all cars. Please lets try to keep editorializing to a minimum in this thread - we can open another one to debate. Keep the correction/additions coming. All updates in to this point.

Absolutely, Jake. I finally was able to open the file and its an incredible peice of work. I just get scared when the 15% number gets trotted out as it is not that meaningful, and is kinda what got us here in the first place. Wanted to respond to that item, thats all.



------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Scott Nutter]

Cool list. I wonder if you could add a columns for drive type front/rear, engine placement, and or factory weight distribution?

[Geo]

Originally posted by Jake:
Jake - nobody is disputing the fact that stock HP isn't going to perfectly relate to WHP. While it's not gospel, it is important information that is undisputable and we can get for all cars.

Actually, it is disputable. For starters it's pretty well known the Bimmer's stock bhp is understated. Further, there have been some well publicized cases in recent years of manufacturers overstating their bhp.

I'm not trying to take away from your work in any way. Let's just understand the nature of the data we are working with.

[Knestis]

Feb 04 FasTrack updated the years of the MkIII Golf (your line 218) to include '94-97 models.

K

[fiestadude]

Jake,

Ford Fiesta (Not Festiva) 63 whoppoing HP from the factory.

Good work on this, nice to have a quick link to this info.

Thanks,



------------------
JJ
#62 ITC

[Soflow1]

Jake,

Great work on the Excel spreadsheet! I've got a couple modifications for you.

Oldsmobile SCX (cell D46) reads 155HP the Quad4 W41 is actually rated at 190HP stock.
Oldsmobile Calais (cell D47) reads 160HP once again the Quad4 W41 is rated at 190HP stock.



------------------

[gran racing]

The Fiesta's HP number is really interesting! 63 HP? Jake, what are we doing wrong then?

------------------
Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude

[ITSRX7]

Line 15: Contour non SVT - 170hp
Line 11: SOHC Neon ACR - 132hp
Line 41 and 42: 300ZX's - 160hp
Line 66: Volvo - 168hp
Line 118: 88 Fiero V6 - 135hp

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[itafiero]

Nice job, thanks!

The ITA Fiero 1985-87 and 88 all had the same HP, 135.

The ITB Fiero 1984-87 had 92 HP. The '88 ITB Fiero has 98 HP stock.

The disc brake for the '88 ITB is wrong. They have the same suspension including brakes as the '88 ITA.

[Super Swift]

Jake

I am a little reluctant to give you all my information that I have found on the IT cars simply because it has taken me a long time to compile it all. I have however asked my Dad and brother for advice on this subject and both have given me the go ahead.

Where my data comes from-

My dad collected Road & Track from around 1964 to 1997 in this collection most IT cars are included. In 1987 Road & Track went down hill and stopped covering low end cars as well. So from 1988 to present I get most of my information from msn.com and cross reference as best I can will Road & Track. I am only telling you this so you trust the data I give you.

Often in your data you are giving cars more power than I do. I am taking this as a guide to me to do more research on these cars so I will not include them in what I give you. I am only going to give you what you do not have and where I have found higher HP ratings.

I hope this information is useful to you.

ITS
Line 33- 150hp
Line 35- 170hp
Line 49- 150hp
Line 50- 175hp
Line 55- 188hp
Line 56- 135hp
ITA
Line 69- 115
Line 72- 129
Line 73- 125
Line 76- 115
Line 78- 135
Line 84- 110
Line 87- 119
Line 88- 119
Line 95- 102
Line 102- 110
Line 105- 102
Line 107- 110
Line 108- 101
Line 110-119
Line 111-110
Line 113-140
Line 116-113
Line 119-140
Line 120-86
Line 127-116
Line 134-96
ITB
Line 139-116
Line141-129
Line142-129
Line143-102
Line151-90
Line153-98
Line157-102
Line158-102
Line159-92.5
Line162-115
Line164-102
Line165-100
Line166-102
Line171-104
Line176-110
Line177-98
Line180-98
Line181-97
Line182-100
Line183-102
Line186-97
Line187-97
Line189-90
Line190-102
Line191-75
Line192-105
Line193-75
Line194-96
Line200-72.5
Line201-95
Line202-115
Line203-128
Line204-115
Line205-115
Line206-100 my old car
Line207-70 this is the one time I will say you have it to high because I am sure you do.
Line208-97
Line209-96
Line210-95
Line212-116
Line213-105
Line215-75
Line217-90
Line228-114
Line229-98
Line230-105
ITC
231-62
232-96
233-72
234-81
235-70
236-88
237-67
238-75
239-94
240-96
241-45
242-1780lbs (2003 GCR) 90hp
243-76
245-58
246-70
247-70
248-95
249-68
251-52
252-63
253-67
254-70
258-68
259-80
260-70
261-65
262-68
263-70
264-65
265-62
266-50
267-81
268-62
269-80
270-65
271-70
272-96
273-69
274-67
275-69
276-70
277-77
278-80
280-64
281-77
282-64
283-77
284-58
285-60
286-70
287-88
289-58
290-73
291-68
292-60
294-78
295-78
296-55