Removing Parts

[Knestis]

My dashboard decisions were similar to Greg's, it sounds like...



I took out the passive restraint knee pads under the dash since they are separate pieces of trim. I removed the center console and the trim panels that ran up to the dash bottom from it.

I left the ducting that was integral to the heater box, still have all of the stock instruments and switches, and put the airbag cover back on - for the time being, at least - because it was just so butt-ugly with it off.

I still have the ashtray even though it will come out for the enduro, because I drive the car to races and it makes a good place to keep the registration and proof of insurance. And the fuse for the transponder.

K

[lateapex911]

I agree with the working definition of the "Dashboard" being what you get when you order one from the dealer.

I see a lot of RX-7s with hacked off consoles (which for those who don't know, are one molded hunk from the windsheild down to the shifter), and I always wonder why?

Did it save time to cut it off? Doubtful since doing something always takes more time than not doing something...

Did it make the car more reliable? Doubtful...a console rarely fails, and when it does it doesn't slow the car down....

Perhaps it lightened the car! Must be it. Maybe 1.3 pounds?

For 1.3 pounds, I'll leave it in...it looks like you don't care about legality with it hacked off, and I know a great place to find that 1.3 pounds, and 20 more.....the gym!

Besides, sharp hacked off corners right next to my knee doesn't seem like a smart idea.

(And to those curious about the RX-7 door bars, there was a mid year change in 80, IIRC, that made a lot of chassis type changes, any car from 81 and up has them I think. Should be easy to tell if they were removed by looking for the marks of removal: old spot welds, lack of undercoat coverage in a pattern, etc.)

Also, regarding the "NASCAR" door bars...read the GCR definition on them as well. I think it is no more than one horizontal bar that extends into the door cavity. And "horizontal" is open for discussion as well. As I recall the rulesmakers wanted to provide a "Prize" to entice builders to to extend protection into the door, no matter how minimal, and the prize was the entire door contents. A good deal, for sure!

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited August 10, 2004).]

[Geo]

Originally posted by Speed Raycer:
Re: dashboard.... I once heard someone make the anology of ordering a new dashboard from a dealer... what would come in the box? Obviously, this changes from make to make, but it gives you a good starting point. Glove boxes or doors wont, lower trim panels wouldn't.

Best reasoning I've seen/heard on this issue.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Knestis]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
... As I recall the rulesmakers wanted to provide a "Prize" to entice builders to to extend protection into the door, no matter how minimal, and the prize was the entire door contents. A good deal, for sure!

Interesting. I'd never heard that explanation before...

K

[Ron Earp]

Guess I should count myself lucky. With the old JH, it doesn't have all these bits that people are discussing or debating removal of. I've got no lower kick panels, lower dash, glove box, etc - just a simple dash with six instruments that must stay. Easy to read the rules on this one.

I am keeping in air con controls, since it is simply a single speed fan and slider flap to direct air up or through the vents. Can't weigh much and might help in wet conditions. Simple cars are good in this respect.

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey

[Knestis]

Your wiring situation won't be nearly as heinous as some of ours, either.

"Let's see - this is ABS. Or is it the wiring for cruise that my car didn't come with? ARGH."

K

[Mike Spencer]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
...Also, regarding the "NASCAR" door bars...read the GCR definition on them as well. I think it is no more than one horizontal bar that extends into the door cavity. And "horizontal" is open for discussion as well. As I recall the rulesmakers wanted to provide a "Prize" to entice builders to to extend protection into the door, no matter how minimal, and the prize was the entire door contents. A good deal, for sure!

Jake, you scared the weeee out of me! I have two horizontal (OK, I give up. How is THAT up for discussion?) bars. So, I went and looked it up. <Whew!>

"NASCAR-Style Door Bars - If installed, shall consist of one or more sidebars that intrude into the door cavity and connect the main hoop to the front hoop"

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Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 #60
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

[Ron Earp]

Three fuses. I'm using what wiring I can from the car since I must leave the harness, but it is very simple. One car in which you really could use the racer panel - Power, Start, Lights, Wiper and that is it. If fact, I will use one of these but connect the exisiting harness to it.

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Ron
http://www.gt40s.com
Lotus Turbo Esprit
BMW E36 M3
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Mike Spencer:
Jake, you scared the weeee out of me! I have two horizontal (OK, I give up. How is THAT up for discussion?) bars. So, I went and looked it up. <Whew!>

"NASCAR-Style Door Bars - If installed, shall consist of one or more sidebars that intrude into the door cavity and connect the main hoop to the front hoop"

Sorry Mike! good read, I should have been lass "casual" in my writing! I meant that you don't HAVE to have any more than ONE horizontal door bar that intrudes into the cavity to qualify as a "NASCAR" door bar. You COULD have 5....if you wanted.

The "horizontal"?

Well, I've seen people read the book, think "NASCAR", and build these elaborate cages of tubes, all 90 degrees to each other, thinking how safe they are. Trouble is the whole assembly attaches to the car in essentially two spots: tha base of the front down tube, and the base of the main roll hoop. I've seen the results of T bone hits in these cars...the whole affair rips from the floor and swings into the car like an over head door, but swinging in and up. Bad news.

I've also seen some nice interpretations. (I wasn't brave enough to follow my ideas when I was building my own car). These cages use a diagonal from the main hoop down to the front downtubes base that projects into the door. Than another to form an "X". A horizontal runs along the rocker, and is joined to the "X" intesection by a short vertical. The lower node of the short vertical has a cross car tube attach to it that joins a tube on the other side of the car. Won't work in every car, but....

I think thats a better, and legal way to go. Less tubes, but better intrusion protection. And better stiffening as well. But the term "horizontal" becomes the crux of the issue.



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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[CaptainWho]

So, what's the feeling on doing a "X" door "bar" with gussets (like many of the SCCA Speed Challenge cars have), maybe "boxing" it with a horizontal bar up around the height of the base of the stock door window (and maybe another at the base of the stock door)? Sure, it'd be heavier, but when I'm betting my backsides, I'll take the extra few pounds. I don't really want to put in a "Petty bar" (I think that's what it's called) because I want to retain the option of putting in an passenger seat for instructed DEs.

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Doug "Lefty" Franklin
NutDriver Racing

[Knestis]

I think non-NASCAR door bars are a great idea...



I don't like the conservation-of-energy math offered by door bars that extend into the doors, leaving only a few thou of sheetmetal between an incoming car and the driver.

It takes about a nanosecond for the driver (or parts thereof) to use up that extra 6" of distance in the event of a side impact. And then, there's been no attenuation of the kinetic energy in that lump trying to drive through your door.

I kept the doors intact, including the door cards with nice soft arm rests and pockets. All of that stuff will use up energy and I'm confident that intrusion will be handled with my design as well as with any.

K

[CaptainWho]

That's almost exactly what I was thinking of, except without the bar that's nearly vertical on the right, to the left of the A-pillar bar.

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Doug "Lefty" Franklin
NutDriver Racing

[Geo]

Originally posted by CaptainWho:
That's almost exactly what I was thinking of, except without the bar that's nearly vertical on the right, to the left of the A-pillar bar.

Actually, that tube is critical to a strong cage with the X design Kirk used. Without the top front of the X attaching at the bend in the front support, you have an unsupported bend in a tube. In a crash Doc Newton says "fold here." But with Kirk's tube supporting the "halo" it's supported and is less likely to collapse.

Re: NASCAR bars vs X....

Greg Amy pointed out very well a year or so ago that the failure mode of NASCAR bars is to bend back inward and the support they have comes only through mass. Mass for mass the X is stronger. If you have an X with two straight tubes, to make it fail you would have to literally rip the X from the cage or rip the cage from the car because it would take tremendous energy to stretch the tubes along their length.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com