rules regarding power steering & cruise control

[Greyout]

I really hope that either I am just having a hard time finding it in the GCR, or it is just assumed so because its a race car, or that is a simple oversight in the rules.

My car comes standard with powersteering and cruise control. I am assuming both of these items are removable for Improved Touring? (ESPECIALLY the cruise control?)

[gran racing]

I believe power steering has to stay (unfortunately). I'm hoping someone will tell me it can go (and is in the GCR of course).

How much does cruise control weigh? I can't imagine the system would weigh much at all.

[Knestis]

If your model (as listed in the ITCS) was offered with manual steering, you may use it. Otherwise, the PS has to be there and operable. No, not even "broken."

If you can't find an allowance to remove it, it should be expected that it has to stay - whatever "it" is.

I've frankly never worried about cruise so I've never looked...

K

[Eric Parham]

I think cruise control can safely be deleted under the "driver controls" heading (don't have GCR handy, will add citation later).

On the power steering (PS) issue, I think this is one of the rare instances of opposite rules creep. There used to be a sentence at the beginning of the ITCS that read something like "comfort and convenience items may be removed." Power steering was certainly one of those items, but others were less obvious. For example, I guess too many people tried to remove those nasty heater cores under this guise while others considered a heater/defroster to be more of a safety issue (I know, both for and against). I don't know exactly when that language disappeared, but it certainly did. Aside from the poor guy that got DQ'd for having a manual rack that was only available with a differently classed engine, the change pretty much breezed by because most people *could* run a standard or optional manual rack. Obviously, there are a few cars (especially newer ones with ITS/ITA engines) where that engine was only available in a decked out "package" with PS. I think it's a bit silly, but COA opinions have held that PS must be retained if no examples of the spec line car came without it. That's our current rule.

[JeffYoung]

Correct. And to illustrate the silliness of this, I believe my car (1980 TR8) is one of the few cars that ONLY came with power steering. My pump leaks like a sieve (have rebuilt it twice) so I just took the belt off since I can't afford a new one right now. Technically, this is illegal and will be corrected as soon as I get funding, but hard to see how this could affect competitiveness in any way -- although I guess freeing up the pulley does add some hp.

In any event, IT is IT. Rules may be dumb, but we have to live by them, otherwise you go race elsewhere.

[joeg]

Jeff--That's a Lucas PS pump, isn't it?

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...is one of the few cars that ONLY came with power steering.</font>

Nope, try my Nissan NX2000. Not only am I wallowing in ITS in a car down at least 75hp to my competition, it only came with power steering, draining a couple more ponies. Even worse, it has a nasty habit of getting very hot, occasionally melting pressure lines (yes, we added a cooler and braided lines...more expense in our Quixotic quest for world domination...)

It would be nice if we allowed verbiage similar to the Spec Miata rules: "Power steering racks may be converted to manual by removing all power steering components."

[racer_tim]

Jeff, I don't think that there's any performance advantage to removing the power steering belt, so if somebody is that anal to protest you, so be it.



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Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[oanglade]

Taking off the belt and disabling the PS system makes the steering give a lot more feedback than with the PS working. That is a decent performance advantage.

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Ony

[gran racing]

Don't most power steering units essentially "turn off" at higher speeds?

[Tom Donnelly]

Greg,

Not that I would ever protest it, but is
a power steering pump cooler legal?

And couldn't you just "fling" a broken
belt in your engine bay before each time out?

You know, "Oh dang, look it done broke!"

The disable power steering seems like a good addition to the ITCS. How about if we start a petition on this?

Tom

[Greg Amy]

>>> ..."turn off" at higher speeds?

Mine doesn't. It may have a high-pressure relief valve, but it never stops pumping. On top of that, no one makes larger-diameter pump pulleys for it.

>>> ...is a power steering pump cooler legal?

Dunno, don't care. Without it the car will be slinging oil on the track from blown pump and steering gear seals. This stuff gets so hot that it literally melts the vinyl anti-chafe wrap we use.

Besides, the car came with a P/S cooler from the factory; the fact that my steel-braided lines (which are expressly legal) are REALLY long is of no consequence...

Finally, "oil coolers may be added or substituted".

As I said though, dunno - don't care.

>>> "fling" a broken belt in your engine bay before each time out?

Well, that would be expressly cheating...

>>> How about if we start a petition on this?

How about we 'pull a Geo' instead? (write to the Comp Board...)

[Knestis]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that petition drives are a waste of time and energy and do more to contribute to the feeling that one is doing something, than they do about actually motivating change.

The prescribed process requires (and therefore presumes) that one member will write and expressly request a change. It's my sense that the primary way that a group could be mobilized to influence the process would be to wait until the measure is under consideration and a request for member input is put out - and then write individual letters of support.

If there is no request for input, the idea is so far from the decision makers' minds that a thousand letters of support would just be a waste of postage (or bandwidth).

K

[Eric Parham]

A thought/question: We're allowed to change the size of accessory pulleys, but not the crank pulley. Correct? Now, the problem has been that very often there just isn't enough space to enlarge an accessory pulley. Can anyone persuasively argue whether we are allowed to change the effective size of accessory pulleys by using a double-belt idler pulley (that is, one large pulley from a crank driven belt spinning on the same shaft as a smaller pulley to the accessory belts? Does it matter whether or not the car came with such an arrangement? What about altering a single serpentine belt arrangement to multiple v-belts?

[zracer22]

Just change the diameter of the power steering pump pully to 0.00" and then fit the fit the appropriate belt.

Or you can do what I did and remove the power steering because no one will protest an E30 325i that finishes mid pack.

[Eric Parham]

Interesting idea. Although reducing the diam would cause the pump to rotate even faster, I guess the belt might just slip on it as the daim approached zero. I think the interpretation has been that it has to "work", though, at least to some extent. I've heard some tech inspector's saying that the pump has to actually move fluid at an idle...

[Geo]

Originally posted by grega:
On top of that, no one makes larger-diameter pump pulleys for it.

Not true. Unorthodox Racing does.



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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Greg Gauper]

Originally posted by Tom Donnelly:
Greg,

And couldn't you just "fling" a broken
belt in your engine bay before each time out?

You know, "Oh dang, look it done broke!"

Tom

As a corner worker at several runoffs, I can state that the good tech inspectors know about that one and won't buy it. That was a trick the Neons tried. You know, just set the belt tension a little loose and let nature take its course. We were instructed to watch for any cars loosing belts in those race groups.

[JeffYoung]

Joe: actually it is a GM/Saginaw pump. The motor is an old Buick design, and so is the PS pump.

Ony: I did my school at Roebling with the PS working. I prefer the steering with the the power working. Feedback is fine, and the steering feels "quicker."

Greg: On the cooler, I know a couple of cars that run long, extensive brake lines to (a) add more fluid to the system and ( cool it. I would assume the same thing would be true for a PS fluid cooler -- the lines are free, so why not a cooler?

[Knestis]

Under the current rules? Because a "line" and a "cooler" are different things, the primary evidence of which is the fact that there we use two different words to describe them. I guess it has been about a year since we played this word game...

Now, if we're talking about the logic behind the rules, the original allowance for alternate lines was so "dangerous" rubber lines could be replaced with "safe" braided ones.

K