Window glass removal - fixed glass?

[nlevine]

I'm planning to add NASCAR-stlye door bars to my cage. ITCS 9.f. says "... The driver's door window glass, window operating mechanism, and inside door latch/lock operating mechanism may be removed and the inner door structural panel may be modified, but not removed..." if NASCAR-style bars are added. My car (BMW Z3) has both movable glass and a fixed glass quarter window in the driver's door (as do others, I'm sure). So, is it legal to remove the fixed quarter glass (and its associated mounting hardware - which is also the track for the movable glass)? What are other folks doing who have NASCAR-style bars?

Thanks,
-noam

[This message has been edited by nlevine (edited June 17, 2004).]

[Greg Amy]

Noam, are you talking about the triangle glass forward of the roll-up window (see http://bmw.hlabs.spb.ru/pics/z3/06.jpg)?

If so, that's a damn fine question. Is that glass held in by the roll-up window tracks? In other words, if the roll-up tracks are removed, what happens to the triangle glass? If it stays put (a la Spec Miata) I suggest that the triangle glass must stay in. If it falls out, then I suggest you can remove it.

I also suggest that you send a clarification request to Topeka on that one.

Greg

[nlevine]

Originally posted by grega:
[B]Noam, are you talking about the triangle glass forward of the roll-up window?

That is precisely the glass I'm referring to. I believe that there are a bunch of VWs with this configuration as well (Rabbits, Sciroccos). I have no problem putting it back in if that's the rule. It had to come out to get the movable glass and regulator out and I was trying to save myself the trouble of putting it back in.

[This message has been edited by nlevine (edited June 17, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by nlevine (edited June 17, 2004).]

[bldn10]

I suspect that the intent of the rule was to allow removal of the glass that could not remain w/ NASCAR bars and not any other, but the wording "driver's door window glass" is broader than that. I would say that any glass in the door, i.e. that swings w/ the door, can be removed. Of course, it could be argued that a fixed glass is not a "window" but that seems rather strained. Sloppy draftsmanship.

[GKR_17]

Seems like you might want to leave it in, none of us can afford any wind tunnel time, but you'd think that a smaller window opening would be better in terms of aero...

You may have seen the "ducting" people used put in with NACA ducts that takes up close to 2/3 of the passenger side window.

Grafton

[lateapex911]

OK, the rulesmakers aren't as lame as we are making them out to be.....

Look up "window" in your GCR. If it's the same as mine, it reads:

A Door or side
The opening where the window normally is raised or lowered in a door. Does not include a "vent" window, whether fixed or movable.

So it seems to me that it stays.

Which I would do even if I could take it out, for aero reasons.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[racer_tim]

The NACA style duct is listed in the SMCS 7.i for Spec Miata only.

PCS states that vent windows, along with window glass, channels, and winding mechanisims will be removed, for Production Cars.

ITCS doesn't say you can, so as usuall, if doesn't state it in the ITCS, then you should leave it in.



------------------
Tim Linerud
San Francisco Region SCCA
#95 GP Wabbit (Bent)
http://linerud.myvnc.com/racing/index.html

[nlevine]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
OK, the rulesmakers aren't as lame as we are making them out to be.....

Look up "window" in your GCR.

Jake - Thanks for the clarification - that's what I get for just reading the ITCS and not checking definitions in the GCR. Back in it goes...

[Eric Parham]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
OK, the rulesmakers aren't as lame as we are making them out to be.....

Look up "window" in your GCR. If it's the same as mine, it reads:

--------------------
A Door or side
The opening where the window normally is raised or lowered in a door. Does not include a "vent" window, whether fixed or movable.
--------------------

So it seems to me that it stays.

Which I would do even if I could take it out, for aero reasons.

I'll take the quote at face value since I don't have my GCR with me, but, the posted definition is clearly referring to a window "opening", and not to the glass itself. Since the NASCAR door bar rule allows removal of the "window glass", I believe that it does include *all* of the "window glass" in the driver's door.

Edit: Interesting, I had to add the original GCR quote manually since it didn't copy automatically through the forum...

[This message has been edited by Eric Parham (edited June 24, 2004).]

[lateapex911]

It's because I used the UBB code for "quote", and it doesn't quote quotes....

but I still think the vent stays in...

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[nlevine]

Well, I left the vent in (looks better, any way). My cage builder will design the bar around it..