Racing seat braces

[lobster]

We have a Corube Clubman seat that we have a seat brace that is not attached to the seat is this ok also the seat is NOT FIA approved older ITB car. Ideas new seat? Etc? thanks Glenn

[Dick Elliott]

Glenn!
I think the rule book states that the brace shall prevent the rearward movement of the seat. Nothing about attachment. If the seat was far enough back that it rested on the cross bar, you wouldn't even need a brace, as there would not be room to install one. Unless the seat is mounted to the cage like NASCAR, I for one, wouldn't want only the top of the seat attached to the cage,while the bottom of the seat was attached to the floor boards. Think about it. DICK

[This message has been edited by Dick Elliott (edited April 18, 2004).]

[m glassburner]

Seats homologated to FIA specs need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure mike g

[apr67]

He said the seat is expired, which means its FIA homologation is no longer vaild. So now he has to use a seat back brace.

[emwavey]

So is that right? If the FIA date is expired, you can run, not saying I would, run an expired seat as long as it has a seat brace?

I'm in a similar circumstance and would like some clarification on this too.

Thanks!!!

[dickita15]

Originally posted by emwavey:
So is that right? If the FIA date is expired, you can run, not saying I would, run an expired seat as long as it has a seat brace?

I'm in a similar circumstance and would like some clarification on this too.

Thanks!!!

that is right. the only thing the certification gives you is the ability to use the fia mounting instruction instead of the gcr.
dik

[joeg]

[quote]Originally posted by emwavey:
[B]So is that right? If the FIA date is expired, you can run, not saying I would, run an expired seat as long as it has a seat brace?

I don't understand the tone of suprise. A seat is good forever if it is attached and of course, I am proud to run an expired seat in such circumstance.

[Joe Craven]

18.4.5 requires that non-FIA racing seats have their backs firmly attached to the roll cage. I attached mine by drilling two holes and bolting it to the seat back brace with large washers.

71 ITB Capri - non-FIA with steel frame seat.
72 ITA Capri - FIA but with bolted seat back brace. Installed before rules update.
83 ITB GTI - fiberglass Sparco seat drilled and bolted with seat back brace.

[emwavey]

Originally posted by joeg:
I don't understand the tone of suprise. A seat is good forever if it is attached and of course, I am proud to run an expired seat in such circumstance. [/B]

When something expires, helmet, seatbelts, etc, you have to replace them... I just figured it was the same with FIA expiration on seats too.

[Greg Amy]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">...I just figured it was the same with FIA expiration on seats too.</font>[/b]

FIA does not "expire" seats, per se, as they do with harnesses. FIa specifically places a life limit on belts, but seats are more like our own Snell rating on helmets: they're a standard that is accepted up to the point of the next revision.

The FIA standards for racing seats is order #8855; the current standard is 1999. Thus, the current FIA standard for seats is 8855-1999. These can be found at:

http://www.fia.com/Regle/REG_TEC/Normes/88...tition_seat.exe

This is a self-extracting Word document.

So, as long as 8855-1999 is applicable, it's unlikely that we will need to replace any seats. However, once (if) 8855-1999 expires, I would not be surprised to see SCCA revise their seat rule to require either a seat meeting the current standard or addition of a seat back brace.

GregA

[Geo]

Originally posted by grega:
FIA does not "expire" seats, per se, as they do with harnesses. FIa specifically places a life limit on belts, but seats are more like our own Snell rating on helmets: they're a standard that is accepted up to the point of the next revision.

Nicht so.

From said FIA document:

"7. Seat life:

The usable life of an FIA homologated seat will be 5 years from the date of manufacture indicated on the seat label.

An extension of up to 2 further years may be authorised where the seat has been returned to the manufacturer for re-validation. Extensions will be indicated by an additional label affixed to the seat identifying the date on which the seat eligibility ceases, and validated by the manufacturer's quality inspection stamp."

Also related to this thread....

ALL Corbeau seats have been stripped of their FIA homologation. If you are currently using a Corbeau seat, expect to be required to use a seat brace.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Knestis]

Geo raises an interesting point. SCCA halfway adopted the FIA standard, taking the homologation requirement but not the lifing standard.

All it would take is one club counsel getting whiff of this and interpreting it as liability exposure - "Your Honor, it is the defendant's position that the SCCA neglegently failed to fully adopt a recognized international safety standard that would have spared this family the loss of their mother to a racing accident..."

Not hard to picture, is it?

Kirk (who may be sorry that he went the FIA route when his $1000 seat expires in four years)

[emwavey]

Originally posted by Geo:
...The usable life of an FIA homologated seat will be 5 years from the date of manufacture indicated on the seat label...

Danke' for the clarification guys... no, really I do have a current GCR. Just didn't see that.

------------------
-dave
8)
http://www.nerdsracing.com

[This message has been edited by emwavey (edited May 12, 2004).]

[apr67]

The SCCA does not require any certification for seats. It just requires a racing type 1 piece seat.

The FIA certification/homologiation just allows you to get by without a back brace.

So once the FIA cert expires, you still have a 1 peice racing seat and it is still legal.

Is this bad mojo? I don't know. The other option is to force everyone into FIA seats (bad idea, I think they suck) or not allow FIA seats.

The real problem is that aluminum racing seats (ala kirky, butler, and such) do not have a certification mechanism. Could this be a job for SFI? Yikes. By the same token, a plasic bucket seat from jegs would also be legal.

I like the current rule, better than the other choices.

[Geo]

Originally posted by apr67:
The real problem is that aluminum racing seats (ala kirky, butler, and such) do not have a certification mechanism. Could this be a job for SFI?

Oh. You mean those idiots who used BS data to justify a requirement to replace belts every two years so their members can sell more belts? No thanks.

SFI has lost all credibility with me. Thank God Snell still certifies helmets.


------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com