SSB -> ITA and wheel widths

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
That's kind of my point. You've got SSC cars that go to ITS and SSB cars that go to ITA. And if the cars are ok to run the same class in SS, I can't believe IT prep will all of a sudden change the performance potential of one that much more than the other.

From what I can tell... SS isn't necessarily a good indicator of what should be competing with what... It appears to be a bit of a "car of the month" club...



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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX

[Geo]

This issue is yet another tempest in a tea pot. The 1.9 Z3 came with 7x16 wheels.

What's the problem? It was available with wider wheels from the factory? So what? So was my 20 year old 944. So was the E46 BMW. The 944 isn't allowed 8" wide wheels and neither is the E46. And rightly so.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Knestis]

As it typical with these questions, there are lots of different issues swirling around.

This instance of the policy might have proven to be a mountain rather than a mole hill - I took the original poster's question at face value, too - but the question of strategic planning on topics like this is NOT a minor one.

K

[Bill Miller]

Originally posted by Banzai240:
From what I can tell... SS isn't necessarily a good indicator of what should be competing with what... It appears to be a bit of a "car of the month" club...

Kinda like IT, huh Darin?

Andy,

"head work"??? I would hardly call port-matching "head work". Do I doubt that the motor would make good power? Not for a minute. Do I think the car belongs in ITA? Not for a minute. Just trying to get my hands around how these classing decisions are made.

Like I said, it's pretty hard to even begin to figure it out when you've got SS cars in different classes, ending up in the same IT class. What makes it even more confusing is when they 'flip' like that (SSB -> ITA, SSC -> ITS).

Which IT cars are allowed to run 17" wheels? As far as what I'd do, moving forward. Pretty much what I said above. 15x7 for everyone, or stock, if larger. Some additional weight could be factored in, at classification time, to compensate for larger, wider wheels.

And while brakes may not be an issue now, they could be, down the road. Especially if cars aren't allowed to run the stock diameter wheels.

And BTW, the Skyhawk/Monza are in ITA w/ a 3.8 V6.

George,

You still didn't comment about the ITA -> ITB moves. Do all those people now have to go buy 6" wheels? What about the people that didn't want the cars moved? They've now got to go spend money to buy new wheels for their cars.

I agree w/ Kirk, these kinds of topics should be at the heart of the strategic planning for the future of IT.

[Geo]

Originally posted by Knestis:
This instance of the policy might have proven to be a mountain rather than a mole hill - I took the original poster's question at face value, too - but the question of strategic planning on topics like this is NOT a minor one.

Kirk, I agree that strategic planning is not a minor one, and I think most of the current ITAC would agree with you. There is some going on right now, but so far all the cars classified or being currently considered for classification do not require a change of the tire rule in any way. Even the E46 was available with 17x8 wheels from the factory, but it was also available with 16" wheels an they can certainly be found in 7" widths, so a problem still does not exist from where I sit.

Predicting what will be classified in the future is a bit difficult, but nothing is planned for next year that I know of that will be a problem.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Geo]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Like I said, it's pretty hard to even begin to figure it out when you've got SS cars in different classes, ending up in the same IT class. What makes it even more confusing is when they 'flip' like that (SSB -> ITA, SSC -> ITS).

Who is to say the classifications for SS were correct? Then there is the fact that there are 2 SS classes, but 4 IT classes. And of course in IT we have more flexibility with classification weight.

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Which IT cars are allowed to run 17" wheels?

Um....

None.

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
You still didn't comment about the ITA -> ITB moves. Do all those people now have to go buy 6" wheels? What about the people that didn't want the cars moved? They've now got to go spend money to buy new wheels for their cars.

Correct on both accounts.

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
I agree w/ Kirk, these kinds of topics should be at the heart of the strategic planning for the future of IT.

They are.

And don't forget there are plenty of people out there who don't want to see changes in IT. They have valid points and concerns as well.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:

Kinda like IT, huh Darin?

Andy,

And BTW, the Skyhawk/Monza are in ITA w/ a 3.8 V6.

George,

You still didn't comment about the ITA -> ITB moves. Do all those people now have to go buy 6" wheels? What about the people that didn't want the cars moved? They've now got to go spend money to buy new wheels for their cars.

I agree w/ Kirk, these kinds of topics should be at the heart of the strategic planning for the future of IT.

Bill, a few thoughts-

1-ITA to ITB ? Yup gotta get new wheels. I think the cost of the new wheels will be partly offset by the selling of the old wheels and the fact that a car that was worthless in A now has worth in B. Will it net out? For some, not others, but it is a small price to pay for not having your ass handed back to you every weekend in peices. Tough luck to the guy who doesn't want to move, the majority is probably thrilled....

and....

2- More than many here, you show enough interest, and have been around long enough to understand the lay of the land, that you should take keyboard to email, and draft a large scope strategy idea set and let the boys at the top see and understand a more cohesive picture.

I know you are as cynical as anyone, but unless you give them your ideas, and others do as well, there can be no change. And don't try to tell me that todays SCCA is the same one of 3 years ago! Now more than perhaps ever, there are people who actually listen and consider....

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited May 03, 2004).]

[Bill Miller]

<font face=\"Verdana, Arial\" size=\"2\">Who is to say the classifications for SS were correct? Then there is the fact that there are 2 SS classes, but 4 IT classes. And of course in IT we have more flexibility with classification weight.</font>

Ok George, when was the last time that a SS car was directly classified in ITB? I'm not even going to ask about ITC because it's pretty pointless.

Now, please explain how much more 'flexibility' IT has w/ weights, over SS.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Geo]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
Now, please explain how much more 'flexibility' IT has w/ weights, over SS.

IT is less tied to the, ah, stock weight. Also, with more classification options we can go light in a higher class or heavier in a lower class. With some cars this doesn't work out, but it does add more flexibility.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Geo]

.

[This message has been edited by Geo (edited May 03, 2004).]

[Geo]

Sorry. Hiccuped.


[This message has been edited by Geo (edited May 03, 2004).]

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:

Andy,

"head work"??? I would hardly call port-matching "head work".

Shaving the head(s) for that extra compression...

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[Bill Miller]

George,

Where does it say that SS weights have anything to do w/ stock weights?

Andy,

Again, hardly what I'd called 'head work'. No matter, I agree that the motor would be stout, and would probably be too much for ITA, even if the weight were close to 3400#.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[gran racing]

"You still didn't comment about the ITA -> ITB moves. Do all those people now have to go buy 6" wheels? What about the people that didn't want the cars moved? They've now got to go spend money to buy new wheels for their cars."

Who wouldn't want their car moved from ITA to ITB???

When the decision was made to move my Prelude to ITB, I never even gave the wheel size a thought. Of course I'd have to get 6" wheels. Hmmm. Be totally uncompetitive in ITA or get 6" wheels and be competitive in ITB? Not a tough decision. Besides, we have a year to get the new wheels.

If a person doesn't want to spend much, sell the 7" rims which shouldn't be too hard and buy 6" junk yard rims. They are not hard to find. Yeah, not as good as the light 7" rims the person might of had, but don't you think they'd do better on heavy junk yard rims in the right class (IT then on light rims in the wrong class (ITA)?



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Dave Gran
NER #13 ITA
'87 Honda Prelude