SSB -> ITA and wheel widths

[nlevine]

I know there was a whole thread recently on wheel widths, but I just encountered a new wrinkle that may cost a fair bit of change.

I'm starting to set up a BMW Z3 for ITA and I picked up an ex-SSB car as a starting point. The car came with 16x8 wheels as was allowed in the SSS for that car (which of course, I just read). ITA max. allowable width is 7in. Shame on me for not researching the issue more completely, but any thoughts about "grandfathering" a wheel size so I could run the allowable Showroom Stock configuration in IT? Otherwise, I've got to sell two sets of nice wheels that came with the car and buy more wheels. Not a huge issue, but a bit of a hassle. I would think that a smoother transition from SS to IT would make it easier to get the new cars out there (unless that's entirely the point ).

-noam

[Knestis]

You are only the first, I expect. It would be an interesting exercise - and might save you some $$ - if you were to write a request that this be addressed. I am assuming that the 8" wheels are the standard OE width for the car.

The real question is whether you ask for (a) an exception to the general rule, to allow you to run the stock size, or ( a change in the max width rule.

They are equally unlikely at this point, in my opinion, but the CRB is going to have to deal with this issue at some point in the immediate future. The answer might well be, "sucks to be you."

K

[lateapex911]

I think this should be adressed by a letter to the CRB, ITAC, and BoD as part of an overall strategy.

Times have changed. When IT was born, no SS car was available with 8" wide rims, and the 7" rule was part of a performance upgrade and equilizing measure. Now, you're faced with "performance downgrading"!

It will open a whole can of worms if they were to allow it, but if they were, the only way, IMO, would be to allow it s a line item at the initial classification, and the weight would be set accordingly.

In a way, it makes sense from a weight setting standpoint, as the only known competition history (SS) of the model was performed on the wider rims, and setting weights for the car to run in IT on a narrower rim increases conjecture and ultimately increases the liklihood that the cars weight won't be set correctly.

Now, as an ITA competitor, Norm, I would have issues with you being allowed a wider rim, but thats because we are, at this point, past the classification period. And I have enough overdog competiton to deal with!

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Geo]

Originally posted by Knestis:
You are only the first, I expect. It would be an interesting exercise - and might save you some $$ - if you were to write a request that this be addressed. I am assuming that the 8" wheels are the standard OE width for the car.

Wow, so I may be able to use my stock 8" wide wheels on my 944?

I doubt seriously this is a new issue. But I wouldn't mind being able to use my stock 8" Fuchs wheels.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Geo]

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Times have changed. When IT was born, no SS car was available with 8" wide rims...

OK, at the time IT was born there may not have been any SS cars available with 8" wide wheels, but shortly afterwards the 944 was available with 8" wide rear wheels from the factory.


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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com

[Jake]

You aren't the first with this problem. I thought that ITB Mustangs had already made requests to use their stock 7" wide wheels and have been shot down.

[Knestis]

It struck me this evening that if the RX7 hadn't been moved to ITA - paving the way for 7" wheels - you'd likely be shopping for 18x6" wheels. THAT would be fun.

K

[lateapex911]

Refresh my memory Kirk...was ITA originally a 6" class? (hey! hey..none of that!) The RX-7 was available only with 5.5" wheels from the factory.

How did this all play out?


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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Knestis]

When IT was new - and 6" aftermarket wheels were considered pretty wide - that was the maximum width allowed in A, B, and C.

When the first-gen RX7 got moved to A from S, it got to keep the 7" wheels and, to keep the peace, the entire class got that allowance. At least that's the way I remember it being explained when the change happened.

K


[This message has been edited by Knestis (edited May 01, 2004).]

[lateapex911]

Hmmmmm.

Interesting. That sets a precedence.

I wonder if a similar move should be considered now, and to keep the peace, ITB gets 7" wheels?

If it worked then....

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Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[SubieSethie]

Okay, so what is the max rim width that can be used in the IT classes? Is there a weight minimum?

Later,
Seth E.

[ITSRX7]

Originally posted by SubieSethie:
Okay, so what is the max rim width that can be used in the IT classes? Is there a weight minimum?

Later,
Seth E.

Yes, and Yes.

ITS and ITA have 7" max, ITB and ITC have 6" max. Each car has a minimum weight. You would need the current rulebook to get all that info. If you are building, you need one ASAP!

AB

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Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[SubieSethie]

I am not currently building a car for any IT class. A buddy of mine is rebuilding an old ITA Toyota Corolla GT-S to its former glory. Every chance I get, I flip through his copy of the the GCR. I was just wondering what the general rules for wheels are in IT. It looks like they have to be of stock size, 7-6" wide(depending on class), be contained within the fenders, etc. The only think I am not sure about is if there is a minimum weight for the wheels.

Thanks,
Seth E.

[lateapex911]

Nope...go as light as you want.

Will your buddy run the car? Sounds like he will, good!

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Bill Miller]

I agree, this is probably only the first of many issues to come up like this. Also, didn't this issue of wheel widths come up when the A3 Golf was moved from ITA to ITB? Was there ever any official comment? And how about all the proposed ITA -> ITB moves? I saw nothing at all about the wheel width issue.

Or, maybe this is what Darin was alluding too earlier. If I was Johnny Carson, I'd think that maybe everyone will get 15x7 or whatever the factory size is, if it's larger.

And on a side note, w/ the Z3 going from SSB to ITA, I wonder if we'll see the V6 Camaro do the same thing? Things that make you go hmmmmm......

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Bill Miller]

Another thought about how this might be handled is that the CB response may be something to the effect of: "SS specs/rules have no bearing on IT specs/rules. The IT specs/rules are what they are." This is similar to what's been said about limited-prep Prod cars, even though the rules say things like "IT-prep" for the heads, etc.

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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[Banzai240]

Originally posted by Bill Miller:
And on a side note, w/ the Z3 going from SSB to ITA, I wonder if we'll see the V6 Camaro do the same thing? Things that make you go hmmmmm......

I wouldn't count on it... considering the Z3 in question is the 1.9L that makes 138hp stock and the V6 is a 2.6... Urrr... correction... 3.8 Litre... Not exactly apples to apples...

As for wheel widths... when even a mention of that comes up, some people cringe, yell rules' creep, and simple don't want to discuss the matter... There was discussion about updating this matter, but it was quickly put to rest.

I said that modern technology was something that would have to be dealt with... Well, here's another example... Write your local BoD member and the CRB to let them know your thoughts on IT wheel issues...

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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Renton, WA
ITS '97 240SX


[This message has been edited by Banzai240 (edited May 02, 2004).]

[JeffYoung]

Also, V6 Mustang is ITS, can't imagine the V6 Camaro would end up anywhere else.

Darin, I'm on 13X7s in ITS. Looking to pick up an extra set of wheels -- should I hold off? Sounds like changes might be afoot.....

[Bill Miller]

Darin,

That's kind of my point. You've got SSC cars that go to ITS and SSB cars that go to ITA. And if the cars are ok to run the same class in SS, I can't believe IT prep will all of a sudden change the performance potential of one that much more than the other. Especially since there are no more trunk kits in SS.

I'm concerned about the approach to the wheel issue. Do these people just think it will go away if they ignore it? Why hasn't something been spelled out in the specs when the cars are moved/classed? Especially w/ the SS cars, it's spelled out right on the spec line what the car runs. What's going to happen if you can't get a 15" wheel on a car because it won't clear the brakes?

You talk about planning for the future. This is a pretty obvious issue that's going to need to be addressed. Wait, it already does need to be addressed.


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MARRS #25 ITB Rabbit GTI (sold) | MARRS #25 HProd Rabbit
SCCA 279608

[ITSRX7]

Bill,

I don't think that wheel diameter will be an issue as far as brakes. 16x7, 17x7 should be fine. Now keeping with the times - how do you propose we deal with widths?

Dispacement has to be a one of the many factors in classing IT cars. With the things you can do to a piston engine in IT, you could see big numbers. That Camaro - 200hp 3.8 V6...overbore, headers, head work, I bet you are looking a a STOUT engine.

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region
www.flatout-motorsports.com