The concept of allowing a larger size rim is not against the philosophy of the class....
Cars originally equiped with 12" rims are allowed to go to 13", so a precedent of sorts has been set (for what it's worth).
Senior Member
The concept of allowing a larger size rim is not against the philosophy of the class....
Cars originally equiped with 12" rims are allowed to go to 13", so a precedent of sorts has been set (for what it's worth).
Senior Member
I hope you are all writing letters to the CB!
Senior Member
My BMW 2002 uses 13" wheels. If I go to 15's, that will give me room for bigger brakes. After all, it is a race car, brakes are a safety item, it's easier to get Brembo parts than the old, hard to find OEM Bimmer stuff, etc. Wait a minute! 15X7's are easier to get than 15X6's. All I need to do is get an allowance for fiberglass fender flares.
Dave Ebersole
O=00=O
Tongue in Cheek, of course!
Senior Member
Point taken... but why is it that everyone seems to think that changes have to be part of a cascading trend? Is it not possible to implement just ONE without it having to lead to ten others?? Especially when the ONE makes sense, but the other ten are definately a stretch...??Originally posted by Dave Ebersole:
My BMW 2002 uses 13" wheels. If I go to 15's, that will give me room for bigger brakes. After all, it is a race car, brakes are a safety item, it's easier to get Brembo parts than the old, hard to find OEM Bimmer stuff, etc. Wait a minute! 15X7's are easier to get than 15X6's. All I need to do is get an allowance for fiberglass fender flares.
Dave Ebersole
O=00=O
Tongue in Cheek, of course!
(A question I already know the answer to, of course!)
I think we should just do away with the wheel limits entirely and just say that you can run any size wheel/tire combo that will fit within the stock fender with NO illegal mods... Maybe with a maximum width allowance of 7.5"... Then let everyone decide for themselves which is the best size to run...
But what the heck do I know...
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
[This message has been edited by Banzai240 (edited August 21, 2003).]
Senior Member
I COMPLETELY agree with Darin.
If they fit - you must allow-it.
That also fixes the problem when cars go from ITA to ITB or back.
Senior Member
I see now. Those cars that have the fender room to take advantage of such a proposal gain an advantage over those that don't. Someone explain to me how this is fair.
Dave Ebersole
O=00=O
Senior Member
Since when is IT racing "fair"???Originally posted by Dave Ebersole:
I see now. Those cars that have the fender room to take advantage of such a proposal gain an advantage over those that don't. Someone explain to me how this is fair.
Dave Ebersole
O=00=O
And... please explain to me the "advantage" that is there to be gained.
You race a BMW, right? If you can fit a 13" or 14" wheel, then you can fit a 15" wheel with the right tire. Same goes for 16" or 17" wheels... The tire dimensions don't change... just the rim diameter.
You exploit the advantages that the rules afford your car. THAT is IT racing, so it doesn't sound to me like anything would really change, except that you would now have more wheel choices...
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Darin E. Jordan
SCCA #273080, OR/NW Regions
Auburn, WA
ITS '97 240SX
Senior Member
Dave, C'mon - are you serious? Using your logic right back at you, currently vehicles that came with factory options of different sized wheel diameters are getting an advantage, while those that didn't don't. In a way - this does more to equalize the playing field than it does to give anyone a competitive advantage.
Senior Member
Bloody right. So is Darin.Originally posted by Jake:
Dave, C'mon - are you serious? Using your logic right back at you, currently vehicles that came with factory options of different sized wheel diameters are getting an advantage, while those that didn't don't. In a way - this does more to equalize the playing field than it does to give anyone a competitive advantage.
If we want to bitch, I want to be able to use the 8" wide rear wheels that came stock on my car.(But if we're not going to bitch, I'll be happy with changing them to 7")
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Senior Member
I know the fender clearance under my '02. 7's are not going to fit my car. They would fit most other ITB cars. I cannot fit anything wider than a 205/60. In fact, Hoosier 205/60s are too wide. Changing the rules to "run whatever fits" is a big disadvantage to me compared to the rules as they now stand. I'm on a closer to level playing field with the ITB competition with current rules. I'm just like you guys; I want rules that favor my car, or, at least rules that are not a big disadvantage for me.
Dave Ebersole
O=00=O
Senior Member
How many cars are there that can move back and forth between ITA and ITB. I don't know of any.
Dave Ebersole
O=00=O
Senior Member
I meant if a car were to be reclassed from B to A or A to B
But now that you bring it up, it would allow Spec Miatas to run in ITA.
[This message has been edited by Jake (edited August 22, 2003).]
I agree with the idea that it would be nice to have more than one or two choices of tires, and save a little money by allowing older cars to update to 15 inch rims, you are missing one important point. It's not always the size or diameter of the rim that makes them hard or nearly impossible to find, it's also the lug pattern. Back in the 90's you could find 14x7's for Z cars from at least half a dozen manufacturers. Now, it's only one or two. Reason? 4x114mm lug pattern. You can still find many wheels with 4 lug patterns, but most, if not nearly all are made for FWD applications with way to much offset to be used on RWD cars.
Case in point, American Racing had at least 6 different models of wheels that fit a Z car in the 90's for under 100 bucks each, now? NONE!
Even if the rules were changed to allow cars that are now saddled with 13's and 14's, the market for 4 lug, 15 inch wheels that could be used is still going to be a small one, Panasport, Revolution, etc... still gonna be expensive. The only savings will be in the tires, and number of choices of different sizes and profiles.
Just something else to consider. Just because the rules get changed to say you can upgrade to 15 inch diameter wheels, not every competitor is going to be able to find wheels with the correct offset or lug pattern.
Senior Member
Good points. Lug pattern is an issue as well. However, I'm surprised you'd have much problem finding 14x7's. I see used Toyota Supra wheels or aftermarket AE86 wheels in 14x7 all the time for cheap. I'm pretty sure they all use RWD offset 4x114.3 like you. If you don't like that, you can get converters that allow you to mount up FWD 4X100 wheels too.
Senior Member
Not so. The only manufacturers of 14x7 wheels for FWD are Panasport and Revolution so far as I can find.Originally posted by 2Many Z's:
Back in the 90's you could find 14x7's for Z cars from at least half a dozen manufacturers. Now, it's only one or two. Reason? 4x114mm lug pattern. You can still find many wheels with 4 lug patterns, but most, if not nearly all are made for FWD applications...
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Senior Member
FYI: Revolution has stopped producing 14x7 wheels.
Senior Member
OMG!Originally posted by Jake:
FYI: Revolution has stopped producing 14x7 wheels.
IMHO this should be the number one issue in front of the ITAC and the CB for next season. All that is left is Panasport. I wonder how much longer that will last - especially since Revolution has stopped supplying them.
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George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Senior Member
Just a comment from the (western)Great White North...
Under the rules for the Western Canada Motorsports Association. We allow any diameter, but rim width must follow the same maximum width as SCCA specifies for their classes (ITS&ITA=7"; ITB&ITC=6")
It certainly allows flexibility for not having to buy sometimes more expensive rims.
If you are switching tracks and are wanting to change your gearing via tire OD (ei. 225/50-14 vs 225/50-15)
Before last weekend, I realized I may not have enough tire for 4 hours of track time. (Canadian GT Championship) So, I scrambled, and found there was no 225/50-14 Toyos or Kumhos in North America through the usual sources, but I was able to get a set of Ecstas (225/45-15). Almost same OD as the 225/50-14. In a crunch, I could even run these 14 and 15 tires on the car at the same time. Yes, the handing changes, but they will get you by if the need arises. Without this flexiblility, I would have been hooped for the weekend.
By the way...The ecsta is worth at least 1.5 second over the Toyo at my home track in Calgary.
I can't think of any REAL reason to not allow the wheel diameter flexibility.
Just a comment from someone that may have froze the brain too many times....
Member
okay as the newbie to this forum and racing in general .. I am cornfuzed.. but hey thats normal..
but as far as rim diameter changes as stated before as long as you dont change the rim width there is no real difference other than maybe a little weight. and added cooling to your brakes .. the difference comes in when you make your tire selection.
I could get real indepth with all this if I break out the books I used to run a tire /wheel store many moons ago..I forgot most of what I used to know
other than that my actual question is on my 87 prelude what wheel options do I have to work with by current rules? it has stock 14x6 aluminums on it now 195/60/14
Senior Member
No - because of SCCA's cruel Joke, you need to get rid of those 14's because they were not original equipment on your car. You need to find some little dinky 13" rims to race on.
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