What about these rules?

[grjones1]

Originally posted by ITSRX7:
What class might you be talking about? In IT, the passenger glass is contained by wither the factory door panel or an aluminum skin as per the rules. Drivers door glass is typically gone due to NASCAR style roll bars and when that style of cage isn't used, removing the door panel isn't legal. How does the glass escape?

AB
AB,
I was refuting the idea of changing to plastic windows, the fact that plastic is used to save weight not to make things safer.
And probably more than a few cars, 2- and 4-door models, in IT, showroom stock, and production all carry OEM glass in their rear side windows, which are not rolled down into door pockets, and which when suffering a heavy blow in the side spew broken glass across the course. And you know, I often wonder just how capable that cardboard door panel is for keeping broken glass from blowing towards the driver's seat after a heavy blow.(I know -a good reason to put in the aluminum panel.)
But realy... the point here is why should we carry anything that has no purpose and in fact may present a risk? Quit trying to be smarter than I am and think. I'll grant you the intellectual superiority if you can give me one good reason to carry a rolled-down window glass in a race car (Showroom Stock notwithstanding as representative of total OEM standards and dual purpose intent.)

GRJ

[This message has been edited by grjones1 (edited December 02, 2003).]

Originally posted by Knestis:
Even when prepared to IT rules, my car will have both side windows installed and in working order and the door cards in to contain any broken glass.

The heater hoses will be in there, pushing water through the core to keep mist off of the windshield. The air will be moved around by the OEM blower - although the outboard vents and a hunk of each side's duct gave their all for the rollcage A-pillar tubes.

define racecar, "an automobile MODIFIED for competition" that my friend Kirk, is why I am having a blast building my ep car. When im done I will have a real racecar.

one of you guys said this already, just build what your comfortable with and leave the rest alone, some of us were never meant to be in improved touring and trying to bring the class around to our standards is just plain stupid.

[Knestis]

This may be the best point made here yet. Each of us has our own priorities and values and the decision of which class to run reflects them. I hesitate to tell people who argue for more allowances in the rules to "go run Production" but it is one step more toward the "tinkerer" end of the modification continuum. Leave IT where it is - somewhere between SS and Production.

K

[Eric Parham]

Originally posted by ITSRX7:
How does the glass escape?

AB

Andy, I really don't have a position on the removal of passenger door glass, but I will relay my own experiences. I have lost passenger side window glass twice, both times during hard right hand cornering when someone chose to use my door as an extra brake. During hard right-hand cornering, centrifugal(?) force pulls everything that's not nailed down towards the driver's side! First time I lost my door glass, my rotted cardboard doorcard also came loose, and I managed to continue despite having glass inside my driver's suit, inside my helmet, and under my butt.

After that, I discovered that I could legally update to a later year *plastic* door card (note that many don't have this option). I even added extra non-factory fasteners to make sure it stayed in place. Well, it did it's job, but the collapsing door had less volume than just before being hit, and much of the glass was pushed up through the top of the window opening and proceeded to fly across the car straight into my face. That time I had to pull in on the next lap to fish the glass out of my eyes.

The following race I showed up with racer's tape covering the top of the window opening, which was promptly pointed out by a competitor to possibly help aerodynamics -- against his (and my own) interpretation of the rules!

Well, my latest plan is to apply the thickest and stickiest window tinting that I can find in order to keep all of the glass together the next time it breaks. Technically, I suppose that could be considered ballasting, but I don't think anyone will care under the circumstances. Now the only trouble is that they don't even make that piece of glass anymore...

Just one guy's experience...

[ITSRX7]

Eric,

Good notes. I think you can chalk the first experience up to poor preparation. The second is noted. We all have to do what we can to to be safe. I run the aluminum skin and with the factory rubber in place on the RX-7, it would take a hurricane to get the glass out.


GRJ,

I am not trying to one-up you intellectually. Why would you say that? Can nobody take an opposing view? Cripes. If the only reason you are looking to remove the galss is for weight, see my first post in this thread. The more stuff you are able to remove, the more SOME will need to add weight - and that means creative additions of weight to the light cars - and THAT is a bad thing for the class.

I, Like Kirk, like what Jake said. Many people complain about rules creep. This is IT and it has a mission statement. I can see the removal of glass for safety reasons (or at least the arguement) but not to get weight down.

AB


------------------
Andy Bettencourt
06 ITS RX-7
FlatOut Motorsports
New England Region #188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[grjones1]

Originally posted by Eric Parham:
Andy, I really don't have a position on the removal of passenger door glass, but I will relay my own experiences. I have lost passenger side window glass twice, both times during hard right hand cornering when someone chose to use my door as an extra brake. During hard right-hand cornering, centrifugal(?) force pulls everything that's not nailed down towards the driver's side! First time I lost my door glass, my rotted cardboard doorcard also came loose, and I managed to continue despite having glass inside my driver's suit, inside my helmet, and under my butt.

After that, I discovered that I could legally update to a later year *plastic* door card (note that many don't have this option). I even added extra non-factory fasteners to make sure it stayed in place. Well, it did it's job, but the collapsing door had less volume than just before being hit, and much of the glass was pushed up through the top of the window opening and proceeded to fly across the car straight into my face. That time I had to pull in on the next lap to fish the glass out of my eyes.

The following race I showed up with racer's tape covering the top of the window opening, which was promptly pointed out by a competitor to possibly help aerodynamics -- against his (and my own) interpretation of the rules!

Well, my latest plan is to apply the thickest and stickiest window tinting that I can find in order to keep all of the glass together the next time it breaks. Technically, I suppose that could be considered ballasting, but I don't think anyone will care under the circumstances. Now the only trouble is that they don't even make that piece of glass anymore...

Just one guy's experience...

Thanks Eric. You've proven out my conjecture. Both of us need to put in the aluminum panel, and I'm going to tape the opening, if they want to protest that one I think they would lose on quite a few points: repair, safety, graphics, etc.

Does Eric's report mot suggest to anyone that door glass in the door is not a good idea? Rules creep or no rules creep, the practice is unsafe and should be changed. Period!
G. Robert Jones