Senior Member
Good. Bend the &*%$^ axle. I've got to go work on my car for a race next weekend. Believe it or not it's been fun talking to you guys.Originally posted by Geo:
Yes and no. Axles get bent all the time. The real question is how do you determine legality? The practical answer is you can't.
Regards,
G. Robert Jones
ITC 22
[email protected]
Senior Member
I am satisfied with how this discussion has evolved. All participents have made their valid points clear. Frankly I could care less how much camber is being used, but if the act of bending is taking place and it is giving that car a performance advantage, I would like to see a stop to it.
------------------
Peter Linssen
ITB Opel Manta
Pacific NW Region
Senior Member
Having read this thread from the beginning I wonder if anyone has taken sight of the fact that the ITCS and GCR do NOT allow the removal of the stock wiring harness in IT. If there is optional equipment such as a sunroof then all of the materials for that assembly can come out because the ITCS says so. I I was told I could roll up any unused wiring and stow it in the general area of the loom that it relates to-so that is what I did. New wiring was run as needed in its own harness.
Now to the axle issue. I agree that it is very difficult to police without spec's and measuring points being available. I am aware that "live" or solid axle tubes have been bent to change Camber. However, where in the rules is it actually permitted. Many of you have indicated that we are permitted specific remedies for Camber adjustment and nothing more. So far as I can tell there is no mention of permissible modifications to the housing in the ITCS. If I am wrong-point me to it.
Just my observation-not a criticism.
------------------
Grandpa's toys-modded suspensions and a few other tweaks
'89 CRX Si-SCCA ITA #99
'99 Prelude=a sweet song
'03 Dodge Dakota Club Cab V8-Patriot Blue gonna tow
Senior Member
What kills me on this whole thing is that you guys want EVERYTHING spelled out for you. That just reeks of a spec series, and personally I find it quite boring.
When I see a creative interpretation of the rules, I applaud the effort, not call my lawyer and start a battle royale over it. I gave you a great answer to the radio rule. You want me to keep the stock wiring, fine. I'll use it to power the radio I added. Creative interpretation.
As to the axle thing, my solid axle car is straight, but I see the advantage to cambering it. Would I? Don't know.... do I think someone else should be disallowed? Nope. Even though I find the :lack of spec" argument to be somewhat weak in this instance, I could see how defining a number could make things uglier than they are now.
Geeze... just go to the track and have fun. This isn't bench racing, this is a soap opera gone bad here....
------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com
Senior Member
Yeah, it's a double edge sword. Currently there is no spec by which to DQ someone for doing it, but by creating a spec, it invites it.Originally posted by SilverHorseRacing:
As to the axle thing, my solid axle car is straight, but I see the advantage to cambering it. Would I? Don't know.... do I think someone else should be disallowed? Nope. Even though I find the :lack of spec" argument to be somewhat weak in this instance, I could see how defining a number could make things uglier than they are now.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Senior Member
OK, ok! But I can't just yet......I gotta check my radio harness, and my rear axle...although I'll do that just so I know if I'm legal, or if I'm legal er !Originally posted by SilverHorseRacing:
Geeze... just go to the track and have fun. This isn't bench racing, this is a soap opera gone bad here....
Se ya'll in Atlanta!
------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]
Senior Member
"What kills me on this whole thing is that you guys want EVERYTHING spelled out for you."
No, this is not an open form of racing with unlimited modifications. We are discussing the legal limits of a few particular situations. Where's the harm? We have unearthed many valid view points.
------------------
Peter Linssen
ITB Opel Manta
Pacific NW Region
Senior Member
Originally posted by itmanta:
No, this is not an open form of racing with unlimited modifications. We are discussing the legal limits of a few particular situations. Where's the harm? We have unearthed many valid view points.
Because if you have been here for a while, you will have discovered that there is NO END to the number of opinions on what isn't spelled out in detail enough, and once again, you're back to a spec series. If you want that, you can go race NASCAR or Spec Miata. Personally, I like the ambiguity in the rules, it allows me to use my mind, instead of just my wallet to go faster.
------------------
-Marcello Canitano
www.SilverHorseRacing.com
Senior Member
I understand your point and enjoy that aspect also. However you cannot have a "spec" series with different makes of cars and we do need a solid guidline to build our cars by. Thats all.
------------------
Peter Linssen
ITB Opel Manta
Pacific NW Region
Senior Member
I've been following this thread. Much of my car's electrical wiring has been replaced - oops, I mean repaired. If I was told that I absolutely had to reinstall a stock harness for a 30+ year old car, I'd probably quit racing in that organization.
My rear axle got bent in an accident and I actually want to get it straightened. I have a solid axle car and I measured my axle and I have 3/16" toe out, and .5 degree negative camber. I didn't bend it on purpose and I want to fix at least the toe out. It appears that this isn't easy to control with no specs so.....
37 ITB
Senior Member
Remember that the fundamental assumption here is that there is NO spec in the factory manual for the RX7 - the example that started this piece of the conversation. If a spec IS published for your car, you don't have that argument to invoke...
K
Junior Member
If a new ECU were to be installed would you need to adapt the stock engine wiring harness to it?
Senior Member
What do you mean by a new ECU? Regarless of what engine management software you are using, it must fit inside the stock ECU box in the stock location, connecting to the stock (unmodified) wiring harness, using the stock connector on the ECU.Originally posted by Eric R287:
If a new ECU were to be installed would you need to adapt the stock engine wiring harness to it?
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Junior Member
I see. I plan to put new guts into the stock ECU box. I wasn't sure of what else was needed for a legal install of the new ECU. Such as using the stock connectors, but I knew the wiring harness had to remain intact whether used or not. What if the stock connector were gutted and the isdides replaced with the new connector? I have a feeling that ain't going to fly...Originally posted by Geo:
What do you mean by a new ECU? Regarless of what engine management software you are using, it must fit inside the stock ECU box in the stock location, connecting to the stock (unmodified) wiring harness, using the stock connector on the ECU.
Administrator
Eric, there are very strong and credible rumors of some folks developing Motec engine management systems for the BMW 325 that fits in the stock ECU box and attaches to the unmodified wiring harness.
WAY Cool, clever, impressive, attrociously expensive. And they say removing the washer bottle is not within the philosopgy of the rules...<wink>?
Junior Member
I'm already making an ECU so it won't be too much a hassle to use all the original wiring and connectors. I just feel bad about cannibalizing the L-Jet circuit board over a measely connector. Oh well, I'll get over it.
"Yeah, uhh.. I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you to put a washer bottle into your car."
Senior Member
Greg, I have argued that the rule should require the stock IC board to remain in the stock location as well. This would prevent the gutting and installation of a stand-alone. And I agree with you. It's not within class philosophy. I think the rule is dumb as written. The requirement to keep the stock board in place is that it would not leave enough room for a stand-alone inside.Originally posted by grega:
Eric, there are very strong and credible rumors of some folks developing Motec engine management systems for the BMW 325 that fits in the stock ECU box and attaches to the unmodified wiring harness.
WAY Cool, clever, impressive, attrociously expensive. And they say removing the washer bottle is not within the philosopgy of the rules...<wink>?
If you'd like to write the letter, I'll champion it.
------------------
George Roffe
Houston, TX
84 944 ITS car under construction
92 ITS Sentra SE-R occasionally borrowed
http://www.nissport.com
Senior Member
Dum rool.
Administrator
"Hey, we gotta find a way to beat these clever rules interpretations. We can't just say that reprogramming ECUs is allowed; someone will find a clever way around it. How about we make it harder by saying the wiring harness and housing have to be stock? Let's see 'em get around *THAT*, har-har-de-har!"
Junior Member
You know that would be a problem for me since my L-Jet is made from '80s technology and the boards inside take up so much space. I'd enjoy the challenge, though. =)Originally posted by Geo:
The requirement to keep the stock board in place is that it would not leave enough room for a stand-alone inside.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks