Tires!

[Spinnetti]

I've been out a few years...

I run IT/A in a Rear wheel drive Toyota (205/55-14)

Whats the Hot ticket These days? I'm understanding Hoosiers?

What's second best? I hear the Hosers wear like butter on hot asphalt.

I'm doing a track day in a few weeks (LOTS of time) and want something that I can run for that and get a few races out of this year...

Is 2nd best horrible or worth it for some additional tire wear?

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Spinnetti (edited March 05, 2005).]

[lateapex911]

Honestly?

Start with a set of Toyos....

If you are just getting restarted, spending the big bucks for Hoosiers, then flatspotting one, or running events where the last Nth degree...about a second a lap for the first 7 heat cycles or so, just isn't worth it.

The Hoosiers are great, especially for the guys making $ mounting them....

By the time I am all said and done I have spent close to $800 for a set mounted, which means I have spent $100 bucks every time the tires do enough laps to get warm.

When things go wrong, (like last year when the track was damaged 3 laps into a race and we were done), it can cost almost $100 a lap after figuring the other costs of running the race. Yuk.

Granted, the Hoosiers will need a slightly different set up, but if I were in your shoes, I'd get Toyos, and start maximizing my seat time.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[Spinnetti]

So Toyo's are the best price/performance/wear mix?

Have you tried the Avons or other brands?
I started on Hoosiers and sure didn't like them way back then. I used to love the Yoko's, and I was pretty fast on BFG, though they were impossible in the rain.

I guess for the first couple races, having a slow tire won't matter too much, though I am pretty compulsive about being in the front pack.

Thanks for the advice.

Originally posted by lateapex911:
Honestly?

Start with a set of Toyos....

If you are just getting restarted, spending the big bucks for Hoosiers, then flatspotting one, or running events where the last Nth degree...about a second a lap for the first 7 heat cycles or so, just isn't worth it.

The Hoosiers are great, especially for the guys making $ mounting them....

By the time I am all said and done I have spent close to $800 for a set mounted, which means I have spent $100 bucks every time the tires do enough laps to get warm.

When things go wrong, (like last year when the track was damaged 3 laps into a race and we were done), it can cost almost $100 a lap after figuring the other costs of running the race. Yuk.

Granted, the Hoosiers will need a slightly different set up, but if I were in your shoes, I'd get Toyos, and start maximizing my seat time.

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by Spinnetti:
So Toyo's are the best price/performance/wear mix?


I guess for the first couple races, having a slow tire won't matter too much, though I am pretty compulsive about being in the front pack.

Thanks for the advice.

yes, you'll get 20 plus sessions from them and they will be faster after 20 than they were fresh. I wish the Hoosier plant would burn to the ground so we couldn't use the damn things...[edit] kidding...I just wish we didn't have the choice of tires that wear so quickly, thats all. [/edit]

I have only run Toyos, Hoosiers and Kuhmos.
I think a case can be made to choose either the long life but a second slow Toyo, or the short life but a second faster for 7 sessions Hoosier. I don't see the logic of the not so fast but not so long lasting Kuhmos unless you have a situtation where you can win with them and make some $, or where they are the ideal size or some other specific situation.

Regarding your quest to be at the front, I think that your placings will be very dependent on who shows up. If you race against Serra (ITA ARRC winner) every week as we do here in the NE, you'll need more than Hoosiers. I am not doubting the potential of the Toyota, it's just that I have never seen one that could run with the faster Integras, CRXs and 240SXs ....ever.

If you find that your local competition is right near you, then you will have no choice but to step up and start hemmoraging $.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited March 05, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by lateapex911 (edited March 17, 2005).]

[Bob Burns]

David Spinnetti? Toyota Corolla GTS? From somewhere around Detroit?

It's been a long time, but did you run a drivers school/regional at IRP in 1992?

Bob...

[gran racing]

During the past two years when I was in ITA, my theory was does it really matter if I finished 15th place or 13th? Not really especially when I could finish 15th using Toyos and saving a lot of money doing it. Try the Toyos first then if you find you are pretty darn close to the front, buy Hoosiers for your next set. Like Jake, I'm not too thrilled about "having" to buy Hoosiers this year.

Track day with LOTS of time, haven't been on the track in a while, flat spot a Hoosier = not as much track time and about $160 for another tire.

------------------
Dave Gran
NER ITB #13
'87 Honda Prelude si

[Andy Bettencourt]

Also - in the same vien an Hoosier, if Goodyear offers a tire in your size, try it. We like them better than the current Hoosier. Same price, better life - and we think they are faster.

GS-CS.

http://www.racegoodyear.com/distributors.html

AB

------------------
Andy Bettencourt
New England Region, R188967
www.flatout-motorsports.com

[zooracer]

I have been running the Kumhos in 195/55-14 on my swift (victoracers) for one school, one double school, and then my first race in ccps (45 min. race)
Got a little flatspotting on the fronts, which I moved to the rear, at the race.
But they seem to have another race or two in them.
I bought them shaved from tire rack.
Now, I just looked for Toyo's and found they're more expensive then the Kumho's.
Actually, where is a good place to buy Toyo's?
So the toyo's cost more, are not any faster then the Kumhos, and may last a little longer?
matt

[Ron Earp]

Matt,

Get them at the track, Appalachian Tire is there at most all races and you can call ahead and reserve them. We just bought all new tires that way and it is as cheap, or cheaper, than getting them sent to you and then carting them to a tire store to mount and balance.

Plus, the big thing I think, is that buying stuff on track, even if it is a little more sometimes, gives those vendors incentative to come back for that time when you REALLY are in a bind and need a part. Like when you forget your helmet at home, your Holley pump goes out, you forget nomex socks, or some silliness such as that!

Ron

------------------
Ron Earp
NC Region
Ford Lightning Tow Beast
RF GT40 Replica
Jensen-Healey ITS
1/2 a 260Z ITS - Zero

[Spinnetti]

Originally posted by Bob Burns:
David Spinnetti? Toyota Corolla GTS? From somewhere around Detroit?

It's been a long time, but did you run a drivers school/regional at IRP in 1992?

Bob...

Maaaaabe.....

Yep, its me (My second drivers school, and won my first race on first outing there actually)

Bob, did you run a VeeDub? I can't remember, though I remember your name..

I'm from East Lansing originally, but now live in Northern Kentucky and work for Toyota's mfg HQ..

I still have the old beast, and have freshened everything up (really trying to sweat the details to get the last MPH out of it). I know my car (and probably me) is not competetive anymore, but I thought I'd give it one more go and see if it can still be fun. I can't beat the top cars, but should still be able to run maybe at the back of the front pack.

[Spinnetti]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt:
Also - in the same vien an Hoosier, if Goodyear offers a tire in your size, try it. We like them better than the current Hoosier. Same price, better life - and we think they are faster.

AB

Goodness, I hope they are better than they used to be. I ran one season in SSGT in a Mustang on them, and they lasted about 3 sessions! Fastest thing at the time, but good grief! I didn't want to win that bad!

If Hoosiers are like that now, I'll be buying the (relatively) rock hard Toyos!

[Spinnetti]

Thanks for the tips folks...

Looks like I might get the toyos, and then use them as rain tires after my track day... I think that might be a way to get the best of both worlds, since my primary wheels need new tires too (will put Hoosiers on them)

Next question: Cheapest place to get the Toyos? (and should I get the 195 instead of 205 if they will be primarily rain tires?)

[This message has been edited by Spinnetti (edited March 07, 2005).]

[Fastfred92]

Shameless plug maybe but I have had good luck so far on Hankook Z211 tires on a fairly heavy car ( SSB GTI VR6 @ 2930 lbs ). Thay are faster and last longer than the Kuhmo's

www.hankooktireusa.com/competitiontireguide.asp

Fred

[This message has been edited by Fastfred92 (edited March 07, 2005).]

[Bob Burns]

Originally posted by Spinnetti:
Yep, its me (My second drivers school, and won my first race on first outing there actually)

Bob, did you run a VeeDub? I can't remember, though I remember your name..

Thirteen years later, we cross paths again.

Yeah, I was in an 8-valve GTI (back then, they were in ITA). You in your Corolla GTS, a guy in a Jody Lift-prepared 16-valve Scirocco, and me qualified first through third for Sunday's race. The green flag dropped, I nailed the throttle, and passed the Scirocco as we crossed the start line. Then I noticed I was gaining on you and you were drifting left to take the proper line into Turn 1. I said, "what the heck", and stayed on the right with my foot on the floor, passing you at the end of the straight. I was very exhilirating! My lead didn't last, though, as both you and the Scirocco got back around me by the time we got to Turn 12.

I didn't race again until 1995 or so when I bought an ITC Rabbit that I ran for a few years.

The Toyota plant in Georgetown? My employer makes seats and interior trim parts for you guys. I lived in Lexington for a while.

Central Kentucky Region SCCA (www.ckrscca.org) is based in Lexington. Good people, mostly autocrossers though there are a few racers. They should be having a Tech Day at Jim Schings' shop on the north side of Lexington sometime soon. You can get your annual tech done there so you won't have to worry with it at the track.

Bob...

[Spinnetti]

Originally posted by Bob Burns:
Thirteen years later, we cross paths again.

Yeah, I was in an 8-valve GTI (back then, they were in ITA). You in your Corolla GTS, a guy in a Jody Lift-prepared 16-valve Scirocco, and me qualified first through third for Sunday's race. The green flag dropped, I nailed the throttle, and passed the Scirocco as we crossed the start line. Then I noticed I was gaining on you and you were drifting left to take the proper line into Turn 1. I said, "what the heck", and stayed on the right with my foot on the floor, passing you at the end of the straight. I was very exhilirating! My lead didn't last, though, as both you and the Scirocco got back around me by the time we got to Turn 12.

>>> Bob,

Thanks for piping up.. It was very cool to read your account.. I actually don't remember the race at all except some poor schlub waxing his car on the last corner in the concrete walls! (was your bunny black? - I kept all my old race sheets from those days I'll have to look you up)

That was very flattering to say that I was 'drifting left to take the proper line'... even today, I wouldn't know even what the line is - I just know what feels right, and if thats the right line great! <grin>


The Toyota plant in Georgetown? My employer makes seats and interior trim parts for you guys. I lived in Lexington for a while.

>>> I'm an hour north at headquarters, but I go down to the plant once in a while. Which company are you with? (I work with purchasing's systems stuff)

They should be having a Tech Day at Jim Schings' shop on the north side of Lexington sometime soon. You can get your annual tech done there so you won't have to worry with it at the track.

>> Thanks for the tip Bob! (Haven't decided yet if I'll really get into it this year or next). I did a track day with a fellow IT/A racer in his race prepped street CRX with an itegra engine.. I was able to eventually run him down at putnam, him with lots more power and new race tires, me on 6 year old used race tires! I got to thinking, hmmm. maybe the old dog has some life left (and the car too)

Bob...[/B]

[Bob Burns]

Yeah, I was in a black GTI.

I work for Johnson Controls. Our automotive interiors group does a lot of work for Toyota. I work for the controls group and ran the temperature controls installation project for the new seat assembly plant we built in Georgetown about 4 years ago.

If you are an hour north of Georgetown, that puts you closer to Cincinnati. There's an SCCA region there that's pretty active with a lot of racers. You are also probably pretty close to the Koni facility near the Cincinnati airport. One of their marketing/tech guys is Lee Grimes. He has an ITA CRX that he's converting to one of the Production classes.

I'll be at IRP regional in May as a steward. Maybe I'll see you there!

Bob...

[DavidM]

You guys are referring to the shaved Toyos, right? I'm in the same boat right now. I'm gonna be slow till my driving gets better, so the Hoosiers would just be a waste.

Thanks.

David

[Mike Spencer]

Originally posted by DavidM:
You guys are referring to the shaved Toyos, right? I'm in the same boat right now. I'm gonna be slow till my driving gets better, so the Hoosiers would just be a waste.

Thanks.

David

Depends if you are going to use them as "rains". I bought a set of shaved Toyos for my double-school at Roebling last month (IT7). They lasted the whole weekend and have lots left!

FWIW, Appalachian Tire was great! HOWEVER, they can NOT shave tires at the track. That has to be done back at the shop. Call ahead and tell them what you want, but unless you order "spares" too, they may not have any more if you happen to cut a tire during the weekend.

------------------
Mike Spencer
NC Region
ITA/7 RX-7 #60
1990 RX-7 Convertible (street car)

[lateapex911]

I got a season out of a set of shaved Toyos! 7 races and a school, and...get this..I DROVE to the track on them!

Yup, from basically NYC to New Hampshire, Pococno PA, Watkins Glen NY and of couse to Lime Rock in CT.

Thousands of street miles and hundreds of race miles.

On the last race in October, I qualified 5th on the grid, in an not fully developed RX-7, in a 20 car ITA field. And the pole sitter and outside pole were under the track record, and I was about 1.7 seconds back, in my 7th race ever. So..we know the driver wasn't responsible for the time..the tires were.

They are known to get faster as they get older.

------------------
Jake Gulick
CarriageHouse Motorsports
ITA 57 RX-7
New England Region
[email protected]

[backformore]

OK, I can't seem to find pricing for Hankook tires. Any of you Hankook guys give that info?